Main Hoop Braces/Bulkhead interpretations

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">Is there a way to have a SCCA inspector to be paid for his time to inspect the cage...</font>
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As Matt pointed out, I could pay $250 to have an opinion rendered. Not only am I really not interested in spending that money, but (again as Matt noted) I don't know that this would ncessarily be a "get out of jail free" card should someone else disagree.

To me, the value my offer is multi-fold:

- First, it encourages other competitors to come up to me and look at it in person for themselves, which also gives me the opportunity to explain my position in person. My car is an open-hood, open-door, open-hatch policy any time you feel like it. Stay out of my crew chief's way and you can look in, under, and through the car any time.
- Two, the process as I described it to Matt allows me to go through the protest and appeal process for significantly less $$$ than the inspection/pre-opinion actions ($25 for the protest or $125 max for the appeal versus $250).
- Three, I get to meet some of the faces from this board.
- Four, there was a "four" but I forgot what it was.

I've had local qualified SCCA tech inspectors look at my car, specifically during the last annual tech inspection. One of those inspectors is on this board and shall remain nameless 'lest he choose to reveal himself. His initial reaction was the same as yours, Matt, and I thought there for about 5-10 seconds he was gonna bark, but when my crew chief explained our logic he kinda rolled his eyes, looked at us sideways and mumbled something as he walked away...

I'm not gonna BS you guys; you know why we did it the way we did it. But there you are and there we are and never the 'twain shall meet... GA
 
Just took a look at the Photo that Greg has supplied, I have to agree that it is a really grey area, now if the bar in question was secured to the rear "roll" cage I wouldnt see a problem, in either place it would serve the same purpose. Just adding the plate too the strut top that the bar is welded to helped and would need to be removed also.

My guess? He will need to move the rear strut support, if not, good for us and him and on with one we go too!

Can't wait to see how this turns out, We will put up the $25.00, just don't swat any flies on the wall we might be one.

Man I hope my spelling is right, not going to edit this one, not looking back.

Mont

Had to edit too not to.

Plus the #4 cracked me up, needed a good one about now, you cracked me up Greg.




[This message has been edited by Marzracing (edited January 11, 2005).]
 
Sorry, guys - I'm pretty darned nerdy about rules and I don't see this as anything like gray.

Once it became OK to connect multiple tubes to the same plate - as specifically described in the rules - Greg's solution became totally acceptable.

There may be as many tubes in the cage as you want and they may be anywhere you want, as long as they attach only to the plates, and the plates are legal in size and number.

K
 
Ok, I will start welding in the morning. Same thing goes for Rabbit and GTI, right?

Thanks Knestis. Gotta love the rule book and a nerd, That's why I married one, The rules started with "I DO". The nerd is what I married long ago.

Btw, looks like I got off cheap, no charges to any of the cards.


What's up with your home page K, over the limit? Or just all of my walls.

Mont

[This message has been edited by Marzracing (edited January 12, 2005).]
 
Originally posted by Knestis:
Sorry, guys - I'm pretty darned nerdy about rules and I don't see this as anything like gray.
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Sure it is. Black and white are just two shades of grey. But that's about the extent of it.



------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
 
Hehe, this whole thing about legal tubes and plates just reminded me of how I originally considered building my cage. I was going to use a sufficiently long plate for the main hoop to be able to attach one set of supports to the same plate. Since that still only constitutes a single mounting point, I was going to run an additional set of supports going to be the back of the hatch/frame for my second mounting point.

Boy, I'm sure that would have given some folks fits.
biggrin.gif



------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
 
Geesh, What is the date when this is all going to get done and over. I need to get welding soon.

GregAmy, Matt, when is this all goin down?

Mont.

[This message has been edited by Marzracing (edited January 12, 2005).]
 
if your want/intent was to bring a frown to my face then you are quite sucessful. (or is this your alter-ego 36/2 pesona making this post. seems possible) Please take your prejudice and moronic juvenile toxic attitude and just go away. I wonder who gets to scrape the undercoating off your next racecar project. Maybe you should spend some time on the bottom, looking up. Maybe then you could understand what it means to be a brother. You give me the space to be furious.
 
apparantly while I typed the above reply, martzracing edited the post above it-which was an offensive rant against Mexicans and a sophmoric allusion to how "we" all ought to procreate to defend ourselves. I'm confused and dismayed about this. phil
 
Wow... I never thought this topic would get 3 pages of response... Thanks for posting that 1st pic Kirk!

This topic has taught me quite a bit on how people view the cage rules in IT.

It's also taught me not to hit the "send email when there's a response button" when posting a new topic
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Guys, how about we keep it on the topic of Cages and edit out the off topic posts above. I'd hate to see a great topic get locked or deleted.

------------------
Scott Rhea
It's not what you build...
it's how you build it

Izzy's Custom Cages
 
This whole thread 'went circular' sometime on the 7th or 8th of January. No new information, just "can...can't...can...can't...

Now it's just ideology vs. practicality. I'm sticking with the 'practicalists', as 'ideologists' have made a complete hash out of everything they've touched in recorded human history. I just can't grasp an argument that says, if something is specifically allowed, it must then meet a non-specific 'intent' test. How the hell do you do that ? Maybe the rules-writers actually meant what they wrote, and that all the individual rules aren't incongruous or mutually exclusive, when read in total.

Over and out, kids.

(edit - eye kant spel)

[This message has been edited by JohnRW (edited January 12, 2005).]
 
Originally posted by JohnRW:
I just can't grasp an argument that says, if something is specifically allowed, it must then meet a non-specific 'intent' test.
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I'm not talking about intent, but what does the modification do in practice. That distinction is what a tech inspector, the SOM and the COA are there to decide.

For those people that can't grasp why a legal part would be disallowed because it performs an illegal function I'll give you this free example to make your car faster.
smile.gif


Oil pans are unrestricted. I make an oil pan that has a piece on the bottom that is a large flat sheet of aluminum. That piece extends from the front air dam to the rear bumper including a diffuser tunnel. Is that legal? If you read only the rule on oil systems it is. If you read the whole rule book then you know you'll have a number of people crawling under your car next race.

It's an extreme case, but so is the bar in Greg's cage. Also, note that the response from Club Racing's Technical Mirector specifically refers to "exceedingly large" mounting plates are limited by "a prohibitve function" so he certainly acknowledges that even otherwise legal cages are limited by that rule.

For a bunch of people that want to stop discussing this we all can't seem to stop.

------------------
~Matt Rowe
ITA Shelby Charger
MARRS #96
 
k,

It works here but not in your profile, looks great, keep the wheels on the ground! Was there a little puckering going on? In that left hand turn.

Mont
 
Ah - missing "http://..." Thanks!

The interesting thing about the "Rabbit Cup Lean" is how much you don't notice it in the car. The overwhelming impression is one of sloppiness - the steering wheel just isn't connected to much.

K

------------------
PhilsTireService.com Team GTI - ITB Class Winner, 2004 13 Hours at VIR - Tuned with Cobalt Friction brake pads, KONI racing struts, and quality OE Volkswagen and racing parts from Bildon Motorsport

TOYO and HOOSIER Racing Tires available at Phil's Tire Service

[This message has been edited by Knestis (edited January 12, 2005).]
 
K,

Any on board movies in the 13hrs? Hope so.

That story about the stock stuff hanging in there is incredible, really shows driver skills and vw's toughness.

Mont.
 
<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">Any on board movies in the 13hrs?</font>
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About 4-5 hours' worth, IIRC. However, since digital camera AVIs cost about 14-16Gb of hard drive space per hour, I converted the video directly to DVDs. I'm planning on eventually snagging a half-dozen each good day and night laps to convert to MPEG before I over-write the tapes, but after about 30 minutes of watching VIR go round-and-round it tends to mesh all together... GA
 
Great,

We have not been or even seen that track from a drivers point of view and it will be very interesting to see to say the least, we can't wait for you to get them done, hell burn them to dvd and send away! Don't even edit them, we want to see how it really is. Send them c.o.d.

What are you waiting for?, you have had a month to recover! LOL.

Here in Phoenix the tracks have no trees, no green, we would like to see the other tracks and what we are missing.

Your all spoiled from what we see, look at all those nice tracks you have.

Mont.
 
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