March fastrac

Stan, Bowie, Greg, who gets USED at a Regional race? I presume the gold from an event all gets dumped into the same Regional pot therefore a Regional race may help support a loosing National race or a National race may support a loosing Regional race all of which I don't call being used. But when it's called bring your money to a National event little red head to increase the numbers $$$, that I call being used. Your (Regional only cars) good enough to increase our (National) numbers $$$, but your (Regional only cars) not good enough to be part of us (National). As a couple others have said the Regional ITA & ITS cars would be in the 24 count in a hurry if they were allowed to be National cars. Great work on the IT to National front.

Different thoughts for different folks.

Mike, do you have the individual total for the IT cars at EACH of the Cat Nationals? I would be interested in knowing the numbers in a pm or here.
 
Stan, Bowie, Greg, who gets USED at a Regional race? I presume the gold from an event all gets dumped into the same Regional pot therefore a Regional race may help support a loosing National race or a National race may support a loosing Regional race all of which I don't call being used. But when it's called bring your money to a National event little red head to increase the numbers $$$, that I call being used. Your (Regional only cars) good enough to increase our (National) numbers $$$, but your (Regional only cars) not good enough to be part of us (National). As a couple others have said the Regional ITA & ITS cars would be in the 24 count in a hurry if they were allowed to be National cars. Great work on the IT to National front.
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Again, who cares? Whoever is putting on the event is providing a place for people to play. If you don't like the price, or what the profit gets used for, then go play somewhere else, or don't play at all.

You also wrote: "Oh ya, then there is Grammer with his endro things always posting on the IT site. Come & play suckers."

What did you mean by that? That we are suckers if we go race with USERA just because he is trying to make money?

I usually don't respond when you say something that bugs me or that I disagree with because it doesn't seem worth my time, but this time you were being just a bit too much of a pain in the ass.
 
Oh, Gawd: 4 pages in 23 hours, and about a half-dozen thread trails...this doesn't bode well...

I like beer.
 
I have a question. At Road atlanta in late march there is a National race with 2 PRO-IT races. I run a 1993 ITB ford mustang. could I run it as is in the following races all on the same weekend. Of course if they combine lets say EP and BP no, but would my little ITB fit all the class needs.

EProd( looking at last ears times about 10 seconds a lap slower)
BPrep( still slow)
Both Pro-it races(we have done well in the past)
 
Sorry Marcus, but did you notice the words "GCR listed IT cars..."?

Of course, it should be straight forward to convert your car to BP. Another Evo with similar hp is running in Florida with the 40mm SIR...good for 450 hp.

Stan
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Here's a question about IT cross listing in Prepared. In IT you can have an open topped convertable race car, in Prepared you MUST have the factory hardtop. I know that I'm giving up a lot of top end speed with all that drag, but the hard-top is getting harder to find. Sure I'll get one eventually, but I don't want to just jump on the next one I see for sale as they're going for ~$3k a pop.

James
 
James,

The Fastrack says you can run EITHER as an IT-prepped car, OR as a Prepared-prepped car. As long as your car is IT legal, it's legal for Prepared. You can't mix-and-match the rulesets, it's one or the other.
 
Well,

I don't understand what the purpose of the hard-top rule is if they're just going to allow open-toped cars in the category anyway?? Maybe, they assumed that all IT cars have a top...

Actually, I don't think TC ever ran a top on any of his cars, but that was Grand Am not WC...

It's just another reason I'll still be running ITE this year and not Prepared.

James
 
I usually don't respond when you say something that bugs me or that I disagree with because it doesn't seem worth my time,.... [/b]
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If only I was so intellegent, LOL.

Daivid, it's not that black and white. There ARE situations where one hand can wash another.

Guys, I've been on some loooong con calls, and they haven't been JUST about ITAC business. Often they can run long, and discuss much broader subjects, like IT going National, the elimination of the Regional/National seperation. I'm not trying to brag, but my impression is that the CRB is genuinley interested in what the ITAC thinks of such concepts, and I'm sure they'll tell you, I have been more than happy to give them my opinion.

I feel that the club is wasting a huge opportunity with IT, as it's a great way to entice people to go racing, and not making it one of the well publicized categories is just dumb. I know that there are some who agree, and I know they are beating that drum constantly.

But, it's not going to happen overnight. Regarding IT cars in Prep, sure, it might help get the class off the ground, but at the same time, it's not hurting anyone, is it? if you want to get some track time for whatever reason, how is having more options bad?

Unlike some here, i just don't see the SCCA "Man" as trying to screw the little guy.

(Oh, maybe I'm confused, but wasn't the 442 broken out from an existing line in ITS that already had the rear disc allowance as aprt of an error correction? If so, HOW could you eliminate the allowance?? "Sorry guys, but yank those off your car and find some of the old crappy ones, eh?". That'd be fair, wouldn't it?)
 
Stan, Bowie, Greg, who gets USED at a Regional race? I presume the gold from an event all gets dumped into the same Regional pot therefore a Regional race may help support a loosing National race or a National race may support a loosing Regional race all of which I don't call being used. But when it's called bring your money to a National event little red head to increase the numbers $$$, that I call being used. Your (Regional only cars) good enough to increase our (National) numbers $$$, but your (Regional only cars) not good enough to be part of us (National). As a couple others have said the Regional ITA & ITS cars would be in the 24 count in a hurry if they were allowed to be National cars. Great work on the IT to National front.
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Nice rant. Unintelligible and irrational. So...what exactly is your problem with Grammer and USERA ? You've now been asked twice for an answer.

From my observation point (one that includes actually attending SCCA race weekends where USERA is an 'included' group), USERA actually brings additional entries to the race weekend.

But hey...rant away.

I, for one, got a big laugh out of the FP 'not recommended' item. Bob Dowie has a wicked sense of humor, and if you send idiotic items to the CRB, you can now expect an appropriate response. Bravo.
 
Bill, I believe (and I think Stan will agree) that this is the new SCCA. We are trying as hard as we can to get rid of the old way of classing cars. I call it the plate method, you through a plate up in the air and see how many shots it takes to break the plate. Three shots SSB! The ITAC has done a great job using a process to equal the playing field with out favorites. Stan and I are numbers guys and we believe a similar process should be used in all classes. I agree with you about the limited prep prod rules and I was going to make it my mission to get in the middle of it and try to make it right. Once I started to do some investigating and found out that even long time prod guys do not know why the rules are the way they are, it left me scratching my head. Then the Prepared class came along and I believe that it is a viable solution to the SCCA's future, so that is were I have put my attention.

As for the RX7, people have been trying to get it into ITB for as long as I have been on the CRB/ITAC. The simple turth is the car has way to much potential for ITB or it will have to weigh so much that it would not be any fun to drive. I believe that a well prepared RX7 is still capible of runing at the top of ITA, specially after the 100 pound weight reduction. By no means do I think it is the car to have in ITA, but it can and does compete well in ITA. The only reason we dual classed the ITS/ITR cars was we were not sure ITR would generate the numbers, so why make guys run there. PK
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Peter,

Thanks for the reply. I'd like to believe that things have definately turned a corner w/ the SCCA (at least from an IT perspective). I applaud the work that Darin and the others on the ITAC did in getting an objective process put in place for classing cars. I also applaud them for having the sack to run the entire ITCS through the process. Darin and I may have had our differences, but I will raise a glass to him (and the others) and celebrate what they did for IT.

The fact that we were able to get ITR through the system in record time is another indicator that things have changed w.r.t. IT. It was a pleasure to be part of the group that put the proposal together.

The RX7 is just the poster child for the 'tweeners'. It's also very visable, so it's easy to hold it up. Another great example of a 'tweener' is the AW11 MR2. People have been trying to get that car moved to ITB since the early/mid 90's!!!
 
Oh, Gawd: 4 pages in 23 hours, and about a half-dozen thread trails...this doesn't bode well...

I like beer.
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Excellent point. Maybe if someone has a juicy topic coming OUT of a VastCrack publishing announcement, they should post a topical thread...?

I like beer, too. In fact, I'm drinking one right now.

K
 
Here's a question about IT cross listing in Prepared. In IT you can have an open topped convertable race car, in Prepared you MUST have the factory hardtop. I know that I'm giving up a lot of top end speed with all that drag, but the hard-top is getting harder to find. Sure I'll get one eventually, but I don't want to just jump on the next one I see for sale as they're going for ~$3k a pop. James[/b]
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Josh is correct as far as he goes, James, but that isn't the whole "convertible" story. The statements under Chassis in the B and D spec sections that state "Convertibles are permitted with a hardtop" are permissive in nature, not directive. In other words, if you have a convertible you may run it as a convertible or with the OEM hardtop, your choice. To see what I mean, take a look at paragraph 13 on page 341, where is says "Fabric tops are not permitted, and shall be removed along with all associated hardware. It may be replaced with an OEM hardtop if one is available." Convertibles are definitely permitted. Stan
 
Sorry Marcus, but did you notice the words "GCR listed IT cars..."?

Of course, it should be straight forward to convert your car to BP. Another Evo with similar hp is running in Florida with the 40mm SIR...good for 450 hp.

Stan
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Ha. No I missed that...

I wish it was my car! (Kent Jordan has torn up the west coast in it, in ITE, SP, etc...)

Marcus
 
They turned one of those Mueller Evi into small pieces spread all over the countryside, if the video postings are accurate...

K
 
Stan, yep. RRE (Road Race Engineering) is owned by John Mueller, who built the car. I went through school with Kent, he is a hell of a nice guy...

Dr. K.- Yep; that was Evo v.1 he pushed off the exit of the big sweeper at Willow Springs and hooked a rut, then spun into the infield and performed a hellacious arial show with a formerly fairly pristine Evo.

The one he has now is just wicked.

Back on this topic- Who cares?\
I mean really?

At least a subset of IT cars have been basically prod legal for a while and I don't see anyone screaming that we are propping up their numbers?!?!?


Marcus, who is kinda thankful he went SM racing....
 
Josh is correct as far as he goes, James, but that isn't the whole "convertible" story. The statements under Chassis in the B and D spec sections that state "Convertibles are permitted with a hardtop" are permissive in nature, not directive. In other words, if you have a convertible you may run it as a convertible or with the OEM hardtop, your choice. To see what I mean, take a look at paragraph 13 on page 341, where is says "Fabric tops are not permitted, and shall be removed along with all associated hardware. It may be replaced with an OEM hardtop if one is available." Convertibles are definitely permitted. Stan
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Stan,

Thanks, that subtlety passed me by. My take on that was the hard-top was manditory in DP, as in no hard-top no convertible race car. I'm glad to be wrong on that actually.

James
 
***I usually don't respond when you say something that bugs me or that I disagree with because it doesn't seem worth my time, but this time you were being just a bit too much of a pain in the ass.***

Most times when I piss someone off it's because they don't view a rule similar to my understanding of a rule. If that's your issue with me say so. Maybe some of you folks know ALL the rule sperfectly 100% & maybe some of you folks do what the hell you want. Any specific you would like to discuss? What really is a pain in the ass to me is when a rule is being discussed & there is silence. To me that means that the people who are illegal don't want to take part. It's easy to be a lurker like yourself because then nit pickin is easy. But then if you take part in rules discussion someone may catch you in error.

Now back to Grammer & HIS business. When I looked at his USERA site I didn't notice anything that connects his outfit the the SCCA. I noticed no connection for his Iowa race with the SCCA. I could also race with NASA & Midwestern Council but it's my choice not to race with them because the more different organizations I would race with the more it will reduce the car count at SCCA races.

Like I said in a previous post. Different thoughts for different folks. If ya don't like it don't read my stuff. You may be fast but I have not called you a pain in the ass.
 
Most times when I piss someone off it's because they don't view a rule similar to my understanding of a rule.
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Honestly I really think it has more to do with presentation rather than any given opinions.
 
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