March FasTrack is up!
- Thread starter Bill Miller
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Bill Miller
New member
Originally posted by Banzai240:
It's my understanding that at least a couple of CS sections of the GCR are up for re-writes (PCS and SRCS, IIRC).
And sorry Darin, but at re-write of the ITCS may actually be warranted.
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608
dickita15
New member
George, I do see the humor. I understand that almost every change proposed since Ben Hur was based on cost savings or safety. One must be very skeptical when one hears that argument. As a matter of fact if I had been the one to decide about 40 overs, I would have said no. When someone proposes a change, I think will that change become manditory to be a winner, if so I would lean against. I don't have a problem with washer bottles, changing switches, or even right side door glass. And yes i think i should be able to wire up my car without using factory connectors.
I am not saying that i know better or that I am even right, but I do think it is not a irational point of view and should not be dismissed without respectful consideration.
dick patullo
[This message has been edited by dickita15 (edited February 16, 2005).]
May I offer my services? I know I could depend on a number of people from this forum for references.
You know I must say that I find it extremely ironic that the same people who stood up so valiantly to allow a 2.0L car in a 1.6L class are the same people who tremble at the idea of rules creep. Is there not a contradiction lying somewhere in that application of influence?
And I must add that the other day a new 18-year-old neighbor of mine looking over my racer for the first time pondered a while and his first question was: "Why do you still have the the passenger window in the car?" My answer of course was "It's required in the rules." And he answered, "Boy is that stupid!"- So much for appealing to the new generation.
GRJ
Andy Bettencourt
Super Moderator
And I would counter by saying that your car, being older than said teenager, is the unattractive piece of the pie, not the fact that you have a window in the car that actually might keep the rain out when you are in pits.
There are 'stupid' rules in every sport.
AB
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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com
Joe Harlan
New member
Thanks but no thanks! We have seen what you can't do with simple definitions.Originally posted by grjones1:
May I offer my services? I know I could depend on a number of people from this forum for references.
I don't find it Ironic at all and it's about time. We have been divided up in to small groups for 2 long. Using a weight to power figure is way better than a displacement with a 2200lb guess for each class. Air restrictors could allow a lot of cool cars to run together at a reasonable weight. This was forward thinking by this group.
Why is it when ever time somebody wants to make a stupid argument they have a neighbor kid call their car stupid...I don't get it. The kids in my neigborhood think its flat cool to have an old man around that races cars. I bet they have never noticed that I still have a heater.
Since I have no idea what car you drive. It is possible that you may not be able to attract the younger crowd. I think the best thing to do is just outlaw anything thats wasn't built in the last 10 years from SCCA then we could work hard at attracting the younger crowd with nothing but newer cars. A freakin window or a washer bottle is not what keeps them away. First thing that keeps them away is most don't even know we exist and second is the fact we have rules at all. the fix is to first go out and get them to participate at a beginner's level...(SOLO,HPDE) and then give them something to shoot for. Also if you want them for the future you have to get off you ass and go get them. I have at least 15 kids from the local Nissan club coming to an HPDE this year. I will be doing a private tech day for them 2 weeks before to help them prepare. Most of them have seen my RS car and the T2 car I have in the shop and they all the the ITC 510 rental car. these kids are car folk just like the rest of us and when it's time they will join us if they know we exist. RS will catch a lot of them cause they can have some of the stuff they dig...ITE will catch a bunch of them cause of turbo's.
[This message has been edited by Joe Harlan (edited February 16, 2005).]
Dick, I was just pointing out the irony. I think it's kind of funny. It was not mean as disrespect to anyone.
The fact is, there are so many differing and conflicting opinions out there that one could choose any position and be both right and wrong.
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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
Andy,
Actually, he thought the car was kind of "neat." I'm sorry you have something against a Fiesta that can still hold its own against quite a few Mazdas and others. (I personally don't care for "swoopy" cars that can't can't get out of their own way without swapping their taillights with their hood emblems.) But that really doesn't matter. I was reacting against two ideas: one that I'm simply trying to keep my car in the hunt and two I'm trying to rewrite the rulebook.
First I argued a long time ago that the window rattling around in the door was a safety hazard (at least two people reported on this site window glass thrown throughout the cockpit by a broken passenger door window after a side collision); it really didn't have any purpose for existance (I can throw a cover over my car to keep the rain out) and it was an easy, inexpensive way to help some of these guys get down closer to race weight.
And second, I was actually arguing for the first reading of the instrument replacement rule not trying to rewrite it.The new definition in the Glossary is what rewrote the rule whether Joe or anybody else knew what an "instrument" was or not.
In both cases you get your hackles up and accuse me of simply trying to keep my car competitve. That's weak, was before, is now. I'm beginning to believe that you are more interested in the "intent" of the writer than you are the "sense" of his suggestion.
My comment had to do with your very good idea that the Beetle might attract some new blood, but you were unwilling to seriously consider other changes the "new blood" might also find attractive.
Every once in a while let's stop being smart asses, stop considering the sources for whatever conjured predispositions you may have mistakenly arrived at, and look closely at what is being proposed.
GRJ
"Here we are, folks, bottom of the ninth, score is WAY lopsided against the visiting team but we're havin' a great afternoon. The home team is up to the plate for the last time; here we go...
"WHOA, FOLKS! You're not gonna believe this one! They surprise us YET AGAIN with something WAAAAY out of left field!! That's right; the ball wasn't even pitched and the defense threw a ball BACK TO THE PLATE from the outfield!!! Where in the HECK did that one come from? The home plate umpire is scratching his head and the first-base umpire simply quit and went home! The guy at third base is already starting to drink heavily and they're all lookin' through the rulebooks to figure how to interpret that one!! Hoo, boy, this one's not over yet, folks, not by a long shot! Stick around, we may have dancing elephants come along soon, too!!!"
"WHOA, FOLKS! You're not gonna believe this one! They surprise us YET AGAIN with something WAAAAY out of left field!! That's right; the ball wasn't even pitched and the defense threw a ball BACK TO THE PLATE from the outfield!!! Where in the HECK did that one come from? The home plate umpire is scratching his head and the first-base umpire simply quit and went home! The guy at third base is already starting to drink heavily and they're all lookin' through the rulebooks to figure how to interpret that one!! Hoo, boy, this one's not over yet, folks, not by a long shot! Stick around, we may have dancing elephants come along soon, too!!!"
Andy Bettencourt
Super Moderator
This is the kind of post that give you the rap you have. Easy.
I haven't done anything in this thread except debate you - calmly. I just don't agree with you.
I find it hard to belive that, when push comes to shove, a window on the passenger side is what is keeping kids away, but a Fiesta (or any car that 99% of 18 years olds HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT IS), that is 180 degrees away from what is popular amongst this current culture is 'cool'.
Ya, it's a racecar - and it IS cool. But to say that we are losing potential racers because of the 'stupid' rules? I just don't buy it. Half the RACERS don't read the rulebook, nevermind a batch of kids who are looking for an outlet. They want to look cool and be fast. Seen any ITC cars drifting lately? NOPE. Frankly, ITC is the LAST place I would think would excite them. No agenda, no vedetta, just my opinion. Hence the 'fresh' classification of the New Beetle...but let's not go there.
It was a comment about the rules keeping kids away, not a shot at your car...all IT cars are created equal in my book.
AB
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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com
I haven't done anything in this thread except debate you - calmly. I just don't agree with you.
I find it hard to belive that, when push comes to shove, a window on the passenger side is what is keeping kids away, but a Fiesta (or any car that 99% of 18 years olds HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT IS), that is 180 degrees away from what is popular amongst this current culture is 'cool'.
Ya, it's a racecar - and it IS cool. But to say that we are losing potential racers because of the 'stupid' rules? I just don't buy it. Half the RACERS don't read the rulebook, nevermind a batch of kids who are looking for an outlet. They want to look cool and be fast. Seen any ITC cars drifting lately? NOPE. Frankly, ITC is the LAST place I would think would excite them. No agenda, no vedetta, just my opinion. Hence the 'fresh' classification of the New Beetle...but let's not go there.
It was a comment about the rules keeping kids away, not a shot at your car...all IT cars are created equal in my book.
AB
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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com
planet6racing
New member
To: GREG AMY
From: Planet 6 Racing
Subject: INVOICE
QTY 1 Microsoft Natural Keyboard $35.00
Payment due upon receipt.
Thank you for doing business with us. It has been our pleasure.
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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com
From: Planet 6 Racing
Subject: INVOICE
QTY 1 Microsoft Natural Keyboard $35.00
Payment due upon receipt.
Thank you for doing business with us. It has been our pleasure.
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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com
ShelbyRacer
New member
Originally posted by Banzai240:
Just watch Production try to re-write their rules in the coming future...
Once they are written, the next 15 years will be spent working to get them corrected... in "piece meal fashion", just like we are doing today...
Hey, I'm on that committee dammit...
Thankfully, I'm an SCCAnerd, so I should be fine...
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Matt Green
"Ain't nothin' improved about Improved Touring..."
Andy,
I guess because of the money, time, attention I've spent on my car (just like everyone else) and you say "..that your car, being older than said teenager, is the unattractive piece of the pie," I sense a certain lack of appreciation for it.
Calmly let me report fact: friend and son who crewed for me, helped with setting up the car for years when the son decided to go racing opted to go NASA after weighing the difference in "attitude" between us and them. And "attitude" had a great deal to do with the often nonsensical rules we have established.
Now I don't for a minute advocate NASA or anyone else (we are still the best show in town) but I can't help but think that this one little example may have some bearing on our predicament.
I think, and of course I can be wrong, Showroom Stock is for people who do not want to modify their cars. IT is for people who want to make their cars go faster (or at least handle better) than showroom stock for as little money as possible. And for people who have come to know that race cars bend and break and need to be made stronger and safer than they were made for the street, but again want to do it as cheaply as possible. And when our rulesmakers maintain rules that prevent making the cars stronger and safer for a good price, supporting arguments that find logic in the fact that you can add an instrument but you can't do away with the instrument it replaces. (Think now! How ridiculous a notion is that?) it looks like a paranoid reaction to any suggestion of change other than that made by a few close acquaintances whose idea of reasonableness is: I'm smart, you're dumb, I win, you lose. Period.
OK, I've rambled enough for another year and finish with if "drifting" is anybody's idea of motorsport, I'm damn glad I'll be too old soon to participate in motorsports.
I'm gonna go work on my car and see if I can flap some doors this year with my "unattractive peice of the pie."
GRJ
lateapex911
Super Moderator
Well, I resisted the pull to jump on this many times, and there were plenty of juicy chances...even when I got mentioned by name several times...even in a seperate thread!
But I dunno....I guess being thrown in the same bucket with Amy made it seem like pretty good company, and he came up with some gems...but Bill...man, Bill flat outdid himself!
From: Jake (Lateapex911)
To: Bill (Planet 6)
Please remit $1300 at your earliest convenience to replace 3 month old Dell laptop DESTROYED by the spraying of a sticky Coke Classic into it's keys, etc.
Man..have I laughed over THIS thread!
Thanks guys!
PS...Drifting looks pretty cool to me. different, but a hoot.
And..just curious...what Mazdas has the Fiesta been whupping lately?
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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
But I dunno....I guess being thrown in the same bucket with Amy made it seem like pretty good company, and he came up with some gems...but Bill...man, Bill flat outdid himself!
From: Jake (Lateapex911)
To: Bill (Planet 6)
Please remit $1300 at your earliest convenience to replace 3 month old Dell laptop DESTROYED by the spraying of a sticky Coke Classic into it's keys, etc.
Man..have I laughed over THIS thread!
Thanks guys!
PS...Drifting looks pretty cool to me. different, but a hoot.
And..just curious...what Mazdas has the Fiesta been whupping lately?
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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
Andy Bettencourt
Super Moderator
GRJ,
No sweat. It still appears you took offense to my comment. It has nothing to do with teh Fiesta per se. It has to do with the fact is IS a car that kids don't dig. Curious, what kind of car is that kid racing in NASA...BE HONEST.
The SCCA and NASA have different markets. SCCA is trying (and adapting) to be everything to everyone. NASA has a crap-load of specialty series aimed at niche pockets of 'business' - and they do it well.
I bet that kid is running some import that didn't fit favorably into the current SCCA classing structure.
AB
No sweat. It still appears you took offense to my comment. It has nothing to do with teh Fiesta per se. It has to do with the fact is IS a car that kids don't dig. Curious, what kind of car is that kid racing in NASA...BE HONEST.
The SCCA and NASA have different markets. SCCA is trying (and adapting) to be everything to everyone. NASA has a crap-load of specialty series aimed at niche pockets of 'business' - and they do it well.
I bet that kid is running some import that didn't fit favorably into the current SCCA classing structure.
AB
Quite a few Spec Miatas, and 1st gen Spec RX-7s when we raced in their groups.. You can look at some result sheets from MARRS 02 and 03 and last year at VIR if you find that hard to believe. But I'm certainly not the only one in ITC that beat some of the Miatas, etc.
And I would think that anyone enjoying Drifting as a sport probably considers Joey Chitwood a number one entertainer.
Thought I was going to get out of this and let you guys entertain yourselves pouring coke in your keyboards.
GRJ
[This message has been edited by grjones1 (edited February 17, 2005).]
Fastfred92
New member
[
[/b][/QUOTE]
I think, and of course I can be wrong, Showroom Stock is for people who do not want to modify their cars. IT is for people who want to make their cars go faster (or at least handle better) than showroom stock for as little money as possible. GRJ[/B][/QUOTE]
Wrong, a competitive National SS car will cost you more $$$ than many IT cars!
!! And what in the world has happened to this post ??? Is this a record ???
Are we passing out more $8.00 trophies ??
[This message has been edited by Fastfred92 (edited February 17, 2005).]
[/b][/QUOTE]
I think, and of course I can be wrong, Showroom Stock is for people who do not want to modify their cars. IT is for people who want to make their cars go faster (or at least handle better) than showroom stock for as little money as possible. GRJ[/B][/QUOTE]
Wrong, a competitive National SS car will cost you more $$$ than many IT cars!
!! And what in the world has happened to this post ??? Is this a record ???
[This message has been edited by Fastfred92 (edited February 17, 2005).]