NARRC 2011 all races count???

[StephF]

Andy, I agree about the one track pony. Wish it wasn't so. Wish we had ANYPLACE else to go on a regular basis than NHMS. And LRP ain't it in my book, sad to say. The entry fee and schedule don't fit either the budget or the time available.
Really makes me sad because I basically grew up there.

No, I think NERRC has seen an uptick due to economic reasons. Let's face it, a triple on one weekend as opposed to a single or double on another?

And I too would perfer to see NARRC as a 5/8 deal instead of all or nothing. When I was going through points for season end, I saw a lot of folks who led their class in NARRC, by wins and points, but didn't have enough points, enough events, or enough competition to get anything.
Rules are rules, but there were an awful of of folks running who got squat. Folks that maybe would have come out a little bit more if they thought they had a shot at it......

 

[Andy Bettencourt]

Rules are rules, but there were an awful of of folks running who got squat. Folks that maybe would have come out a little bit more if they thought they had a shot at it......

So yes, rules are rules. And the question is how to design a 'Championship' program with 3 goals in mind: ENTICE people to run more races, don't REQUIRE them to run the all, and have the RESULT be quality.

I saw e-mails this past winter from drivers who ran 2 races...TWO races out of eight - and were complaining that they didn't win the NARRC Championship because they had the most points. REALLY?

We are racers need to tell the NARRC Committee what we want in a points structure so that it crowns Champions. There has to be a happy medium between someone who goes to 2 races and wins them both and someone who goes to all of them and wins nothing.

For me, it's the best of 8 inside an 11 race season. If you care about the NARRC, write in. If not, let the people who in my opinion, are out of touch with todays environment keep dictating policy which cheapens the series. Or write in to support the current system, I don't care, just write in.

[email protected]

 

[dickita15]

If you care about the NARRC, write in. If not, let the people who in my opinion, are out of touch with todays environment keep dictating policy which cheapens the series.

Andy, I have no dog in this fight but I have to wonder why you are being such a dick. Just because someone does not agree with you does not make them stupid, evil or out of touch.

My quick look at the 2010 points I see only two champs that made all the races. ITA and SM and in both cases it looks like they would have won if there were drops as well.

 

[lawtonglenn]

...they would have won if there were drops as well.

Dick

I think the main point, and the point Andy is trying to make, is:

NOT what would have the results been if we after the fact change
the rules to allow drops

IS what would people have done differently in their race scheduling
if the rules allowed drops before the fact.


Looking at my own situation, Jack Hall beat me fair and square (congrats Jack!)
but he missed two races, and I missed three...so even if we apply
the 2 drops rule after the fact, it doesn't change anything.

However, before the season started I knew I had to miss one (HS graduation)
and I thought the no drops rule would kill my chances, so I didn't
schedule in NJMP.

Had there been 2 drops in the rules from the beginning, I am quite
certain that I would've gone to the NJMP double...which may or may
not have changed the outcome...

The construct of the rules have to be looked at in light of what behavior
they will encourage and discourage, and compare that to the goal

.

 

[Andy Bettencourt]

Andy, I have no dog in this fight but I have to wonder why you are being such a dick. Just because someone does not agree with you does not make them stupid, evil or out of touch.

My quick look at the 2010 points I see only two champs that made all the races. ITA and SM and in both cases it looks like they would have won if there were drops as well.

Call me a dick if you want but my issue is with the lack of concern for driver input. The people making these decisions are RARELY drivers, they are Regional administrators. It has NOTHING to do with classes I run or how it affects me. I have only heard one driver ever say that a 'Pro' type system would be best for the NARRC.

In fact, at quick glance, there are a couple classes where the CHAMPION would have been different if there were no drops. It rewarded quantity over quality. The drivers I have talked to think that waters down the NARRC Championship. I invite any and all debate on how no drops makes for a better situation. In my opinion, all it does is creates a real possiblility for an 'attendance award'. How often that happens is largely irrelevant, even though it has happened in recent history. What it DOESN'T do, I feel is entice racers to attend more events - because the 11 is so far beyond reality. If you give someone a carrot they can actually reach - with a solid effort and a good 'jump', then they may go for it. If they see the carrot as so high they move to another carrot.

Again, my beef isn't about MY world, it's about the fact the NARRC committee isn't listening to the drivers. What's wrong with being pissed about that? And don't put words in my mouth. I never called anyone evil or stupid. How many of the 8 on the committee club race regularly? 4?

My stance is well known. The NARRC committee knows what the majority of the drivers want in a points structure. They didn't listen. So be it - but lets make sure the drivers know the story. Dick or not.

 

[benspeed]

How tough is it to allow one drop? I mean......sheesh. Wasn't that often the case in the past? I've been zeroed in on Pro IT, but this season It'll be a focus on both NARRC and Pro IT since the events overlap nicely.

But one drop would really help everybody manage time, budgets and organize their season a little more easily.....

So, is it too late to put in a formal request? It's only January...

 

[Jeremy Billiel]

How tough is it to allow one drop? I mean......sheesh. Wasn't that often the case in the past? I've been zeroed in on Pro IT, but this season It'll be a focus on both NARRC and Pro IT since the events overlap nicely.

But one drop would really help everybody manage time, budgets and organize their season a little more easily.....

So, is it too late to put in a formal request? It's only January...

WHY? Becasue if they allow drops than once again the freaken stupid ass Pocono Mothers Day weekend race will have no attendance. This is what Andy is talking about... Regional administrators using the NARRC to create demand when the demand is not there.

 

[ner88]

Well I guess I'll take a shot at this!
I have been involved in the NARRC comittee for the last 4 years.
I have never seen or has there been a drivers rep. at any of the meetings.
Many of the "regional adminstrators" are NARRC compeditors and even champions.
As a regional adminstrator my main job is to represent my region, not just as a NARRC series adminstrator but to insure that all the members of my region are represented.
The NARRC series was established to bring drivers to the events in all regions involved in NARRC.
It does not do that anymore.
Look at last years results, the two major regions saw no crossover between drivers.
If the racers who are chasing the series (not many) don't want to race at Pocono, NHMS or NJMP why have a series.

If you want a better series get involved and make it better, stop pointing fingeres.

 

[Andy Bettencourt]

Well I guess I'll take a shot at this!
I have been involved in the NARRC comittee for the last 4 years.
I have never seen or has there been a drivers rep. at any of the meetings.
Many of the "regional adminstrators" are NARRC compeditors and even champions.
As a regional adminstrator my main job is to represent my region, not just as a NARRC series adminstrator but to insure that all the members of my region are represented.
The NARRC series was established to bring drivers to the events in all regions involved in NARRC.
It does not do that anymore.
Look at last years results, the two major regions saw no crossover between drivers.
If the racers who are chasing the series (not many) don't want to race at Pocono, NHMS or NJMP why have a series.

If you want a better series get involved and make it better, stop pointing fingeres.

Ill tell you why you haven't seen a drivers rep at a meeting. Because the admins piggy back the NARRC meeting on top of NEDiv meetings in places like Southern Jersey and Pittsburgh, PA. In the past, written compilations of drivers feedback has been provided to the committee for their meetings.

Yes admins ARE in charge of scheduling, a lot of times to the detriment of the schedule as seen in past years.

PAST Champions, Jerry. I applaud all who volunteer as I have had some role in the SCCA for almost all of my 21 year tenure but people need to Beckett if the current landscape and economies of racing to really know what's going on. Sorry if that stings some.

I have (and you and I have had discussions about this for a few years) volunteered to take this series out of the hands of the admins and run it more like PRO IT. No takers. If that isn't getting involved I don't know what is.

 

[Andy Bettencourt]

Edit for above: 'beckett' should be 'be aware of'

Can't scroll and edit from my phone.

 

[Andy Bettencourt]

And don't get me wrong about events. This years schedule is as perfect as you can get. It basically what the drivers have been asking for: variety of tracks, about a month in between points events and not too much weight on one track (although LRP has an extra race).

Just because some can't go to Pocono on MDW doesn't mean it shouldn't be on the sched. Some people love it! Give choices, have a diverse choice but don't 'require' the attendance of every event. Anyone tell me the downside to Best 8 of 11?

Anyone love no drops and can help us better understand?

 

[StephenB]

If NARRC had an awards banquet somewhat central compaired to all regions I would be more inclined to go after that championship. If we had a NARRC RUNOFFS with an awards banquet that night it would certainly add to the series and in my opinion bring back some excitement. The NARRC runnoffs are always very well attended and bring a lot of drivers and workers from all regions together. To me out would be perfect timing...

I emailed andy and I am one of those drivers that competed in one of the highest participation classes (IT but fell short of the 1000 point rule from a poor performance at the final race. To be honest I only did half the races but to also be honest I only went to the NARRC runoffs because I had a chance of winning it all. (Wife was due 2 days later...) I think in a class that has high participation you should be the champion even if you only go to as many as you need to go to...

I think Andy refered to me when he mentioned the pro-racing structure. I don't think he liked it and thought it was to complicated but he listened well as the driver Rep, gave me feedback, and all was good.

Stephen Blethen
highest in points in the 2010 ITB NARRC Championship!