Andy, I think poeples concern is that gas will cost 50% more and entry will cost x% more and most of us make the same when you factor in inflation vs our pay so most will have to reduce the # of races or go into debt to race. I do not believe the term boycott is in order, just sensible spending. Its to bad LR has increased fees. It will cost the club in reduced #'s racing and hence our need to rent LR. Oh well. I to hope Palmer comes online.
NARRC Rule changes?
- Thread starter TimM ITB
- Start date
RSTPerformance
New member
For me the breaking point for a normal 2 day event is around $300 +/- $25 depending the event. For a single day event it is probably around $200 or so, but I have to have a specific reason for wanting to go to any single day regional...
Obviosly I am willing to pay more than my cut off point for "special" events. Every race at Lime Rock is not special to me, although I absolutely love the track.
Sure Andy I agree it is only $89 more, but at some point I have to say when... It is sorta like looking at options when buying a car, or even a diamond... The sales people are very good at saying for only $X more you can get this... and before you know it you have lots an arm and a leg. Some can afford "everything" while others can not. I can't. Those that can I encourage you to attend the races as you always have, thier is nothing wrong with you or someone else being able to afford to play at certain places even though others can not or will not.
With all that said I still think that it is rotten that the regions have forced people who want to be contenders in the NARRC series to go to these races, I hope it changes back for next year.
Raymond
Obviosly I am willing to pay more than my cut off point for "special" events. Every race at Lime Rock is not special to me, although I absolutely love the track.
Sure Andy I agree it is only $89 more, but at some point I have to say when... It is sorta like looking at options when buying a car, or even a diamond... The sales people are very good at saying for only $X more you can get this... and before you know it you have lots an arm and a leg. Some can afford "everything" while others can not. I can't. Those that can I encourage you to attend the races as you always have, thier is nothing wrong with you or someone else being able to afford to play at certain places even though others can not or will not.
With all that said I still think that it is rotten that the regions have forced people who want to be contenders in the NARRC series to go to these races, I hope it changes back for next year.
Raymond
Andy Bettencourt
Super Moderator
I guess my point was that nobody complains about the costs at NHIS - and for $89 more LRP is 'outrageous'. We all have our breaking points but the numbers don't make sense to me.
Look at the NARRC 'requirements' in a different light. Without them, these events may dry up and die. Loosing LRP all together won't be far behind...and how many events are you going to travel to at Pocono and WGI every year? You will burn up that $89 in gas the first time you go...
Every event on a ROVAL isn't my idea of a great road racing series.
Bill Miller
New member
Andy,
I'd drive twice as far to race at Watkins Glen over LRP any day of the week. And that's even w/ the crappy track mgmt/policies at WG. I don't disagree that you have to be really good to be really fast at LRP, but it was just never that interesting to me. I'm not saying that it's boring, just not interesting to me. I think it's much better suited for marque events though. And I do agree, rovals suck.
I'd drive twice as far to race at Watkins Glen over LRP any day of the week. And that's even w/ the crappy track mgmt/policies at WG. I don't disagree that you have to be really good to be really fast at LRP, but it was just never that interesting to me. I'm not saying that it's boring, just not interesting to me. I think it's much better suited for marque events though. And I do agree, rovals suck.
Tkczecheredflag
New member
I think I agree with Andy regarding the entry fees - it is an additional $89.00 but how does that measure up against the other racing costs? Sometimes LRP feels like we get a lot less track time but - the "double" format offers a bit more time - or at least on paper it feels that way - and it offers more NARRC points too.
I happen to like LRP for racing - it is technically challenging (lord knows I have not mastered it), and it challenges me to improve everytime I go there - especially with the new TEG. I am still slow in West Bend and look forward to the day that I can get from the "uphill" to Big Bend with my foot in the floor and stop feathering the gas- sounds like fun - no????
I too would welcome more WG and Pocono events and suspect I would have to support those regions that sanction those events - Tough to do when I am running the NARRC/NERRC schedule and I don't have a bottomless money pit.
Oh well.
I happen to like LRP for racing - it is technically challenging (lord knows I have not mastered it), and it challenges me to improve everytime I go there - especially with the new TEG. I am still slow in West Bend and look forward to the day that I can get from the "uphill" to Big Bend with my foot in the floor and stop feathering the gas- sounds like fun - no????
I too would welcome more WG and Pocono events and suspect I would have to support those regions that sanction those events - Tough to do when I am running the NARRC/NERRC schedule and I don't have a bottomless money pit.
Oh well.
Andy Bettencourt
Super Moderator
And I respect that. But at that point it isn't about cost because you would be throwing all that money in 'saved' saved entry fees right out at the gas pumps.
Bill Miller
New member
Actually, what you would be doing is spending the same amount, but racing at a much better track (IMHO).
Andy Bettencourt
Super Moderator
Now THAT would be debatable!
Bill Miller
New member
Now THAT would be debatable!
[/b]
That LRP is a better track than WG? You leave the cap off that jug of race gas again??
Seriously, I have yet to meet anyone that's driven both tracks that would say that LRP is a better track.
gran racing
Super Moderator
I've driven both tracks and like LRP more for multiple reasons.
lateapex911
Super Moderator
Kinda like deciding between Jennifer Aniston and Courney Cox. Yea, I'd go with Jennifer in a hearbeat, but........
The Glen is great...a classic roadcourse, but Lime Rock has it's merits as well. Theres something about the place....it has subtlety. And armco isn't whacko baby blue .
The Glen is great...a classic roadcourse, but Lime Rock has it's merits as well. Theres something about the place....it has subtlety. And armco isn't whacko baby blue .
Such as...?
No, more like deciding between Jennifer and Kate Winslet. Kate's probably a nice romp, but it's not something you'd really prefer, given the choice...
But, then, there's always the guys that love the fat chicks.
Such as... (part deaux...)?
Yeah, "history", "legacy", "tradition", etc. We've been brainwashed by 50 years of SCCA/road racing history into thinking this was a really cool place...in actuality, it's got the same "je ne sais quoi" qualities of the old Mercury and Gemini launch pads at KSC: not particularly useful, but you feel compelled to go there anyway.
And LRP management takes advantage of that as much as possible.
gran racing
Super Moderator
What’s so special about Lime Rock in my opinion?
I’ll start from an in-car perspective. There are two sections at LRP that I really love – the uphill and the down hill. I have several reasons why I enjoy these sections. Just to start: the uphill, going into it and feeling the car get light as the car crests the top. Too cool. Then there’s the down hill and seeing what type of guts I’ve got that day. (Usually not enough.) Now that was fun! I also like that the track is fairly short since I enjoy working with traffic. Sure, sometimes it works against me but that’s a part of racing.
A club racing weekend for me is more than just my on-track racing. Next time you’re at the track, take a minute and enjoy the surroundings. I truly enjoy watching the other races and friends I’ve gotten to know out there. The experience also extends beyond myself. My friends and family also enjoy attending events at LRP. There’s something special about bringing cooler, lawn chairs and blanket then sitting on the infield hill. It’s a great place to watch road racing! (Watching from the Glen is nothing in comparison.)
Those are the real reasons, but my heart does listen to the history be it a bit different than you might think. I grew up going to pro races with my father at LRP and the Memorial Day weekend event was always something I really, really looked forward to. I sat on those hills for many years watching and fantasizing that would be me out there. Now I am.
Go on, tell me how wrong I am with all of this. I really don’t care because this is how I personally view things.
I’ll start from an in-car perspective. There are two sections at LRP that I really love – the uphill and the down hill. I have several reasons why I enjoy these sections. Just to start: the uphill, going into it and feeling the car get light as the car crests the top. Too cool. Then there’s the down hill and seeing what type of guts I’ve got that day. (Usually not enough.) Now that was fun! I also like that the track is fairly short since I enjoy working with traffic. Sure, sometimes it works against me but that’s a part of racing.
A club racing weekend for me is more than just my on-track racing. Next time you’re at the track, take a minute and enjoy the surroundings. I truly enjoy watching the other races and friends I’ve gotten to know out there. The experience also extends beyond myself. My friends and family also enjoy attending events at LRP. There’s something special about bringing cooler, lawn chairs and blanket then sitting on the infield hill. It’s a great place to watch road racing! (Watching from the Glen is nothing in comparison.)
Those are the real reasons, but my heart does listen to the history be it a bit different than you might think. I grew up going to pro races with my father at LRP and the Memorial Day weekend event was always something I really, really looked forward to. I sat on those hills for many years watching and fantasizing that would be me out there. Now I am.
Go on, tell me how wrong I am with all of this. I really don’t care because this is how I personally view things.
lateapex911
Super Moderator
OK, heres why I like Lime Rock.
I realize these are not all pure racing reasons, but hey, they are MY reasons, LOL.
- The area.... it's close and the area is nice to go to....pretty drive, and all that.
- the track is arguably one of the better looking tracks around. Parklike.
- it's not easy to get it really right there as it's a bit risky, with some close walls.
- it's tough to figure out the subtleties
- easy to get around.from paddock to pits to hill etc.
- lots of good viewing locations. I like racing, both doing and watching.
- it has showers, LOL. (barely)
Why I don't like Lime Rock-'
- The reverse oval nature of the place doesn't suit the built in inbalances inherent in my car
- The showers..not enough, and kinda "campy"
- Those close walls.
- No racing on Sundays. (see "area" above)
- The paddock is a lake in the rain, and theres often not enough in a large event.
- THe "Tough s8it attitude from the management.
As you can see, I am a bit conflicted on some items!
I realize these are not all pure racing reasons, but hey, they are MY reasons, LOL.
- The area.... it's close and the area is nice to go to....pretty drive, and all that.
- the track is arguably one of the better looking tracks around. Parklike.
- it's not easy to get it really right there as it's a bit risky, with some close walls.
- it's tough to figure out the subtleties
- easy to get around.from paddock to pits to hill etc.
- lots of good viewing locations. I like racing, both doing and watching.
- it has showers, LOL. (barely)
Why I don't like Lime Rock-'
- The reverse oval nature of the place doesn't suit the built in inbalances inherent in my car
- The showers..not enough, and kinda "campy"
- Those close walls.
- No racing on Sundays. (see "area" above)
- The paddock is a lake in the rain, and theres often not enough in a large event.
- THe "Tough s8it attitude from the management.
As you can see, I am a bit conflicted on some items!
What if I told you I just hit the Power Ball, and my goal in life was to build my own race track. I'm gonna make an exact replica of Lime Rock Park, only 1.5 miles around, same hills and turns, and even to the earthen walls, Aarmco close to the track (and the part sticking out at the drivers at the top of the Uphill), and I'm even going to replicate the "smoothness" of the asphalt surface. Can't race on Sunday, and I'll charge SCCA $53k (this year) for the track, and I'll even hire the same caterer to offer the same food selections. It'll be smack-dab in the middle of CT, halfway between Boston and NYC.
Will you show up? Will you herald my track as a great wonder and thank me for building it? Probably not. Hell, I'd probably hate it too...
The things that attract you guys to LRP are not always specifically the black stuff in between the steel walls and things that make it worth driving...so, basically, you're saying the view and the trees at the Left Hander (I tend to gag at the "park-like setting" comments from LRP's marketing department, especially when walking through the dusty infield, the vendors along the "midway", the asphalt skidpad, or through all the drunken spectators along No Name Straight) make it worth the entry fee.
Yeah, I used to sit at home in Texas and glue myself to the tube to watch the Memorial Day race(s) here, but I've gotten over it...it's no longer the Mecca/shrine it was to me 20 years ago.
Will you show up? Will you herald my track as a great wonder and thank me for building it? Probably not. Hell, I'd probably hate it too...
The things that attract you guys to LRP are not always specifically the black stuff in between the steel walls and things that make it worth driving...so, basically, you're saying the view and the trees at the Left Hander (I tend to gag at the "park-like setting" comments from LRP's marketing department, especially when walking through the dusty infield, the vendors along the "midway", the asphalt skidpad, or through all the drunken spectators along No Name Straight) make it worth the entry fee.
Yeah, I used to sit at home in Texas and glue myself to the tube to watch the Memorial Day race(s) here, but I've gotten over it...it's no longer the Mecca/shrine it was to me 20 years ago.
What I like...
Good for local friends to come and watch. Offers the best balance of "hey this is kinda nice, mixed with this isn't redneck at all!" It's as close to horse racing as car racing gets (if you don't get that one go to Saratoga to see the ponies.)
What I can't stand....
Obnoxiously prevalent CT attitude
The bridge leaving is just as challenging as the race itself.
The bumps...unless you've got the SCORE offroad suspension
When the summer storms come through hang on (06 runoffs)
R
Good for local friends to come and watch. Offers the best balance of "hey this is kinda nice, mixed with this isn't redneck at all!" It's as close to horse racing as car racing gets (if you don't get that one go to Saratoga to see the ponies.)
What I can't stand....
Obnoxiously prevalent CT attitude
The bridge leaving is just as challenging as the race itself.
The bumps...unless you've got the SCORE offroad suspension
When the summer storms come through hang on (06 runoffs)
R
tom_sprecher
Super Moderator
I don't want to highjack this thread but what is a CT attitute? I have a buddy from CT and I love feed him crap. Help me out here.
Thanks
gran racing
Super Moderator
Why even bother ask then Greg.
Drive your rig through the NW corner of the state, you'll see. I ALWAYS go over the "picturesque" Cornwall bridge too!!! The cell phone tower they were proposing for that part of the state made the evening news as a headline for a week.
It's a time warp back to 1957.
Sorry to be biased I'm just not in love with living in CT. It's an educated opinion too....I've been to 48 of the 50 states.
R
It's a time warp back to 1957.
Sorry to be biased I'm just not in love with living in CT. It's an educated opinion too....I've been to 48 of the 50 states.
R