National Rule Set For IT7?

[roadracer]

To be honest it was purely to get opinions on the subject. There are some advantages that can be had but some apparent obstacles would have to be overcome. As the IT Triple Crown Administrator I have received a few requests to have IT7 included. That can not happen without a nationally accepted set of rules. The Atlanta Region ProIT series no longer recognizes IT7 as a separate class due to lack of participation. Some divisions still do not support IT7 and people have asked me how they can change that around.

What was once an extremely popular car, and to an extent still is, has fragmented into several classes. I see that as a disadvantage for the platform. I just received some participation numbers for the class and although I have not gone through them I feel they will indicate a downward trend. Points standing lists don’t seem to have as many cars listed in IT7 as they did 3 years ago when I was deciding what class to race in. Cars for sale do not fetch much and sit around for a longer time now. Some vendors that at one time were strong supporters of the 1st gen no longer do so. Parts are hitting the unfavorable part of the supply vs. demand curve but $3k wouldn’t buy a refresh on a Continental engine (at least $4k) that’s required once a year.

At this point in time the classification of car is not clear cut. Unity would eliminate the need to find a proper place. I did not intend to start that debate up again but merely wanted to gauge interest and gather other opinions on the idea.

Thank you for your participation,

Tom is correct. The car is split into too many classes and this fragmentation hurts the economic market and complexion for competing in these cars. He has summed it up well. Likewise Kirk above did a nice job summarizing some of the perceived competition issues.

One class for this car makes sense. And, I understand why the SRX7 folks might be against this due to the expense of upgrading closer to the IT rule set. However the expense would not be that large. SRX7 has dwindled and whithered away in some regions. Spec Miata in it's formative years probably stole the interest when it was a cheap class. It is not anymore.
I know guys with SRX7 cars sitting in fields rotting. There is no real place for them to race. With a couple of weekends work and some financial input, these cars might have a home and some renewed value if a merged class for RX-7's occurred.

Tom, I'm one of the guys that would be interested to know how IT7 can/could be established in a Division. Currently, around here they run in ITA. When I go East, I enter the car in IT7.


Don

 

[dickita15]

Yes I built a new car last year and it makes weight with a 240 pound driver, however it was an extreme effort. I started with the lightest year, did a lot of update backdate for weight and pushed the rules in gray areas where ever I could. This was a rotisserie build that must have been 1000 hours. I was actually trying to prove it was impossible but I only proved it was really wicked hard to do.
We are in our first year of IT7 in the NE and some cars are coming back. There used to be 2 or 3 of us at any one race. We had 4 at our first race and I am hoping off seven next weekend. A barn car was just bought and the guy is going to school in the spring. As long as the cars are not desirable in the regular IT classes it is to the local regions advantage to adopt it for more entries.

 

[Charlie Broring]

Another vote to stop monkeying with our rules.

 

[Speed Raycer]

Wow... 1.5x.095 is now good to 2699 min weight.... I can't imagine that the RX7's weight would approach that for ITB (but I could be wrong)

Went back and searched (which is pretty hard since RX7 & ITB aren't enough letters )

quote:
Mr. Process says ~2550 in ITB for the RX-7 and the MR2 on 6" wheels.

 

[dickita15]

I missed that. Okay that removes one of the problems that have to be overcome to class the car in IT competitively.

 

[Charlie Broring]

Does the "Process" take into account the aerodynamic advantage of the RX7. I have been racing against SRX-7 ant IT-7 for years at VIR and SP, and they have a significantly higher top speed than any ITB car. Weight will not adjust for that . You cannot pass a competent RX7 one on the straight. Unfortunately, the car is a 'tweener. This has recognized for years. Has something changed that will suddenly make it a well matched ITB car?

The MARRS SRX-7 race is one of the best of the weekend. IT-7 is a growing class there too. The status quo isn't perfect but it works. Well. Leave it alone. Be happy with what we have because it was darn hard to get it to work as well as it does.

 

[lateapex911]

OK, back from vacation. Lots of points here...

Charlie, at 115 -120 MPH or so top speed, the RX-7 isn't given weight because of aero.

Tom, consolidating 3 classes that have been in existence for years will be tough. The prep differences are pretty significant. IT-7 cars, as you know are allowed all ITA allowances. The other classes are more restrictive.
IF you were going to combine, it would be very unpopular to revert the ITA/7 cars backwards. You'd need to source lots of stock parts that have been melted for scrap.

Of course, "Upgrading" the other categories to ITA/7 specs would require effort and expenditure, and that's not easy either. At least the parts are available, and there is the bonus of going faster.

But, it's a lofty goal after all these years, no matter which approach you choose.

Now, the issue with the RX-7 (And one the 2nd gen doesn't really share, as it was a "bogey" car for the ITS re-org) is that the 12A engine lacks torque, AND, with it's vacuum secondary, throttle response. The throttle response isn't really that significant of an issue, and most can work around it, but the 100-106 ft lbs the typical race motor produces is significantly less than the front runners. They come to the track with 130, 140, and 150 plus. That's about 50% more. Some here cited the "Solution" the RX-7 got with it's 100 pound weight break, but, in reality, most complain 100 is impossible to achieve. Honestly, the RX-7 can run well at certain tracks when prepped to the absolute nines, but...on the average track, it will be walked by cars that have half the development. And at tracks like Road Atlanta, it's hard to see how any RX-7 with 105 ft lbs and 128 RWHP can touch cars that have 152 RWHP and equal tq.

Some say that the other cars like the Integras got weight added, so THAT balances the scales, and it's true, they did, but the little spoken truth is that the fast cars like Serra's ARRC winning car ran (IIRC what he told me) 60 lbs or so over min before, so any actual weight change was less than it appears.

Now, moving the car to ITB is, to my eyes, a complete waste of time, and (my) money, because if the process fails the car in ITA, it will fail the car in ITB. I have NO desire to spend a lot just to suck in a new class, when I can suck just fine where I am!!

Tom, you provided numbers for the different 1st gen cars. What were the ITC numbers?

Finally, "If you build it, they will come". And if you build it and they don't, they wouldn't have come no matter what.

In other words, if the concept is to combine the 1st gen RX-7 classes, I suggest you need to choose a ruleset among the three, and invite that ruleset to play for the marbles. Then see what happens.

I'd suggest that perhaps you think a little out of the box. Offer IT-7 as one of the classes. For regions that don't recognize IT-7, merely extract the IT-7 cars from the Regions championships, and award points accordingly. As the Fest and concept is "IT", I suggest that IT-7 be your choice of rulesets. Include the other classes, and allow them to run with IT-7. Sure they'll be at a disadvantage, but they can change their cars as they desire. Can't hurt. Just an idea...