NHIS changes you would like to see.

R

RKramden

New member
1: Fix the hole at 11.

I have mentioned this every few months for the last two years, yet nothing gets done. What is needed is something that wont break the car (or bike), but you don't want to drive over in any case. "Crusher run" et al wont work, because it will just get beat out of there like the last batch did. It would be at best a temporary fix. Maybe something like the "ramp" that is at the apex of 10, right where you cross back over the NASCAR track on the way to the north chicane.

2: Fix the ditch on drivers right after station 8 (the tree house).

Same thing, the hole keep growing every month. Lots of people hang two wheels off here and scatter stone over the track as a result, and the hole just keeps getting deeper.

3: Change the chicane in the south end to be a more gentle blend into the track, even if it makes the "elbow" sharper and slower. Smacking the wall on the outside there is all too common.

It isn't enouch to simply add some pavng, but maybe some has to be removed as well, reducing the options in the corner. I really hate the thought of reducing the number of lines available, but the exit of 2 is a bad deal.

4: Move the jersey barriers in 6 (the bowl) forward about 1 or 2 feet.

Currently, the barriers on the outside of the gravel trap are so close to the edge, that if you hit one, it is going to slide down the embankment on the back side. Moving it in a bit would stop this in most cases. Also, as a result, the flaggers have no place to stand that is level and it is very hard on them. They cannot see the the track surface all the way to the apex because of the topography, and they actually need a stand that is about three feet high to see the track surface. (I know this, because after working there for a day, I built a stand that used the jersey barrier lift slots for support and was about 2 feet higher than the ground. It helped, but the platformn I built has long since been "aged" by the years it has been there.)

5: Improve worker protection at station 7 (The tree, drivers left, after the bowl.)

Both ends of the barrier have been clipped while I was standing there, and the area near the tree is dangerous to stand in if you are flagging. (Doug Holmes? clipped the LEFT end either last year or the year before and ended up in the grass way out in the middle of the area.) Add a second barrier between the track and the tree at right angles to one already there.

6: Add another barrier to the flag station at 11.

Like station 7, there isn't any protection from cars that head towards the barrier, and if someone were to head into that station, the barrier that is there could be flipped over. Add a second barrier facing the track that prevents the one there from falling over and provides a 2 sided "box" for the flaggers to work in.

7: Turn 3, remove the alligators at the apex.

Most cars are all four inside them (well, the fast guys are :P ), and the only thing they do is upset the car if you miss the apex by a foot, so remove them. Getting the car upset there only assures the you head for "Patullo's rock", which used to be in the middle of where the gravel trap is now located. (Ah, memories of "Big Dick" high centered on that rock.....) If the DE events and the club racers want to keep people out of there, put cones there, like they do now.

8: Bring back station 9.

There used to be a flag station ("9") on the outside of the downhill turn after the tree house.

The vast runoff that has been created makes that unsafe, but there is a problem if someone spins in the downhill section after the apex. The station that would have the yellow flag (8) cannot see that section of track and must rely on station 10 (at the wall of the nascar oval) to tell them to put up a yellow flag. Sometimes that gets missed. Sometimes it takes too long. And sometimes 8 doesn't see a car that drives off, even if they should (like this last weekend.)

So, create a flag station on the INSIDE near (before) the apex for 9 to warn drivers if there is a spin in that section of track. It would be in your line of sight (or near it, in any case). I'm thinking of near the access road between corner 4 and corner 9.

OK, that is the short form of my list.


Please add your own comments and.or discussion.
 
I'm not sure if you remember the early days of NHIS but the alligator clips were put there to keep people OFF that runoof area. In the early days, those who went off track into the dirt were talked to about "destroying the edges. Management at that point wasn't conducive to changes. I'm not sure if that's the case now. I agree, changes need to be made, but I'm not sure if management will listen. When AMA was involved on bike week, changes were made and maintenance was made. Now that they aren't involved, I'm not sure if SCCA carries enough of the clout to get it to happen. Requests need to made in a well thought out manner and with the grace to convince the owners that money needs to be spent in this area. Good luck in getting them. I know "I" wouldn't go up against the powers to be at the track. Perhaps Bette French is the one to approach in a friendly manner as she is so much a part of SCCA and wants us there.
 
I can't wait for NE to make their own track, It should be perfect. With all of the experts around the area that seem to know all there is to know. At least they are off of the LRP bandwagon now. Pretty soon it may be the only track around(the new one) thanks--- dave
 
I can't wait for NE to make their own track, It should be perfect. With all of the experts around the area that seem to know all there is to know. At least they are off of the LRP bandwagon now. Pretty soon it may be the only track around(the new one) thanks--- dave
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Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves here. Yes we all will love to see a new track, but there are still many hurdles to clear before it is a reality. I say we continue to work on NHIS fixing some items listed here as these are immediate fixs and can cost very little money to fix.
 
Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves here. Yes we all will love to see a new track, but there are still many hurdles to clear before it is a reality. I say we continue to work on NHIS fixing some items listed here as these are immediate fixs and can cost very little money to fix. [/b]
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I think Dave was being a little sarcastic...
 
OK... This thread got sidetracked with sarcasm that to me was targeted at all of us negatively... personally I wasn't impressed, but each to thier own opinion. If you want all us to come to your track and complain let us know we can do anything for a fee.


IMO with all the "hype" about safety equipment in SCCA I am suprised that they don't hold race tracks to a higher standard. I think that in the Northeast we are lucky as overall the tracks are very safe, and they make improvements to keep us safe on a regular basis. Who remembers the "first" NHIS road course and all the changes that have been tried and made in turn 3? If we don't point out problems then things wont get fixed as the people "managing" the track are not the people "using" the track be it for racing, crewing, or flagging.

Dave-

You pointed out plenty of areas that certainly cover my issues. Some of them I am unaware of and would need to check out in order to agree 100%. Each area is worth checking out though by SCCA and track Managment.

My opinion about turn 2 in the chicane... PLENTY of room and a good transition. Certainly driveable. I would like to see the tires somehow attached better so that they don't move once you hit them, and as someone mentioned to me (one of the canadian's crew) maybe have a soft plastic wall attached to the front of the tires so that you slide along them rather than having them "suck you in" when you sideswipe them. I think with these two modifications/improvements the turn would be fine.

Hope all is well;

Raymond
 
Based on Sunday afternoon, how about another look at the trees on the outside of 7?

Also, what about some shade booths for the corner stations? Bridgehampton might have been pretty primitive, but at least they had those little huts for the corner workers to hang out in. It doesn't directly affect the racing, but w/o corner workers we're parked.

Another group to join up w/ to sway the NHIS people whould be the bike guys. I think if you look, you will find that they run more miles of racing there in a season than SCCA does. Ted Goddard claimed to me once that they had the biggest club racing effort at NHIS than anywhere else in the country for bikes. I know very little about it other than I see more bikes heade up & down route 93 than I do racecars during the week.

Matt
 
1: I have no issue with someone being sarcastic (TACT is for people not witty enough to be SARCASTIC), but it should be witty, and there should be some helpful statements along with it.


Nobody claimed to be an expert, but we have all seen the results of the current configuration and can see places where there might be improvments. It's not exactly rocket science to notice that it seems like half the crashes when we run the south chicane are into the wall at the exit of nascar 2. Even past the tires.

Or, to notice that when someone does some off-road racing at 11, the flaggers always report if they took a rough ride so other corners can watch the car for the next few laps and look for bent suspension or wheels (or a broken fuel system ( :( ).)

2: Putting a band on the front of the tires is a great idea. It makes moving them more difficult, so how can we get around that? Also, maybe if they were attached to the wall in some way rather than simply sitting on the pavement, it might help. (Hooked to the chain link posts or the monster steel cable that runs thru the fence?)

3: As for shelters, the track will not do ANYTHING if it impacts NASCAR in any way. We did have a pop-up for stations 3, 5, 10, and 11, but they seem to have vanished. 6 has no place for anything, not even a place to stand, 2 has a small space, but not enough, and anything that blocks anyones view of the track won't be allowed. (Think fan in the lower north seats looking at nascar 2.)
 
Great discussion.

Maybe we can agree on a priority order from
1 The Drivers Perspective

2 The Corner Worker's Perspective

I am ready to bring a shovel to fix turn 11. Even dirt on a temporary basis is better than nothing. Just needs to be done as a maintenance item. Agreed that it should not increase the racing surface....Should be smooth enough to protect the car from damage. The curbing there is unattractive enough as it is. I know we use it but I would not like to see it any rougher or have less traction. I think we as a group could at least "Fill it in" if we can get permission.


Fix the South Chicane. There is plenty of grass area that could be used to change the character of this corner. Maybe a shallower turn into the infield...Go further into the grassy area and make a 90 ish degree left hander to lead to a smooth curve onto the straight. This would add another passing opportunity. Also need to consider the bikes for this as well. This will cost some $$$ to pave. If someone got in trouble in this area there is some room on the outside PLUS the full width and camber of the oval to help stop the car.

Smooth the outside "Apron" at 7. I have scraped bottom too many times there.

Protect us from the trees ouside of 7.


Thanks

Phil K
88 SSM ITA
 
Maybe a shallower turn into the infield[/b]
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Its a chicane, making it shallower sort of defeats the purpose.

They have made it shallower. Next time you're there, go in the resturant and look at the picture on the wall which is dated about 1991. Notice that the south chicane entry is nothing like it used to be. It also shows how turn 10 has been changed.

I doubt that the track will want to tie the tires back to the NASCAR wall, bubba has too much pull to allow changes to how those races get run. Would it be better to just remove the tires? I've never seen anyone hit them terribly hard, its always bumping them, then they're out in the road, or the car is on its roof like last fall when the ITA Miata climbed them and went wheels up. I'm not convinced they save damage on the cars that hit that area.

In the north chicane, perhaps something like the F1 guys use - its sort of a grating that doesn't provide much grip, but will support the car. Kind of like a cattle gaurd or a section of "bar grating".

Matt
 
What I was thinking of for turn 2 was some sort of short cable that attaches to the current NASCAR wall with QuickLinks, or even carabiners, (either locking or not) so they can be removed when we are done. One at each end of a "section", and those in the middle could even be shared so it isn't too many links to remove. It might take an extra 10 minutes to put the tire wall up or take it down, but that would be it. Then, the tires wont flip out into the middle of the track if you tap them.
 
To help with the thread, one of my crew (and future ITS driver) Dan Lashomb took pictures during our Sat night walk around. These are just a few (24) of the pics he took, but they should help since they are recent.
click here for 1 lap of NHIS in pictures
Dan says you can use them if you need to (just give him photo credits :happy204: )

I agree with what I've read so far. I would love to see some kind of shelter/shade for the workers too, but it would be in the way of the NASCAR people :dead_horse: . They'd no doubt wreck anything put up on the hill.

We should get all the road course clubs involved too. BMW, Porsche, bikes, WKA (do they still come to NHIS?). Kathy Barnes is ALWAYS NER's best bet!!
 
I just finished working a VERY hectic and busy weekend at NHIS and had the opportunity to talk with Wanda a bit today when my golf cart (handicap shuttle) broke and she was assigning a new one to me. I started it with the fact that she was highly complimented here as a very PRO sports car club racing type of person and her comment was, "wow, I didn't realize that anyone knew me." Then she asked how her name came up and I basically told her it was on a discussion about Victor's accident and theories as to what could have caused it and prevented his injuries.
First of all, let me tell you that the office staff of operations was very concerned that Victor was transported and didn't really know the extent of the injuries. When I told her she was shocked. Then she asked was some of the complaints were and I simply said trackside maintenance, i.e. the holes, and left it at that. I even mentioned that many people were volunteering to be the manpower to fix them. At that point, she asked if anyone had contacted Bette and I just said that a representative and/or a committee of representatives were drafting something up to give to Bette. She said she would back the club on anything reasonable. So, maybe someone could bring it to the Board of Directors and have Kathy act as spokesperson for the drivers, workers, etc. and get it handled before the next event.
Word of caution, though, I would let Bette relax and calm down after this weekend. It was by far the hottest weekend on record up there, many people got heat stroke, dehydration and the ambulances were most busy. All track personel, both full time and part time are burnt out to say the least. I know the crew I worked with is, (average work time for the 4 days for us was 50+ hours in the sun with few breaks).
Again, Good Luck to the region on getting this all handled.
Trish

Oh, just one more point.....The infield areas can't have anything too soft as those are where the safety equipment sometimes has to cross to go to an incident on the oval during the Cup races. BUT, any changes that would smooth that area out would probably be appreciated by Cup officials as I know back when I worked on track safety, the issue came up several times in (ahem, Bubba's sanction??) Cup meetings with the safety teams of which I was a part at one point in time. Just that one last 2 cents worth.
 
I commend those efforts you are all making... One comment though is that Kathy has a very full plate and where she has not mentioned a word on this (from what I know) I bet she would be a bit suprised with everyone assuming that she will take on the responsability to talk to the track. I personally think that the proper way to deal with this would be to bring these issues up at the next comp board meeting. Work with the rest of the comp board to see what the best way to handle this would be, afterall that is why we have a road racing comp board.

Raymond
 
At the Pig Roast, I put one wheel into that <censored> pothole at the exit of 11 once, and it cost me about $440 in parts alone (control arm, wheel, hub).

That thing NEEDS to be fixed correctly.

At the season opener it looked like someone filled it with dirt. But it's back. The dirt thing is fine, but if that's the fix, it has to be checked before each weekend.

I'm even okay with NHIS telling us it's okay for us to bring a shovel and we can fill the thing in before our weekends. It's less work and less money than a new RF corner!

-Kyle Disque
SM/SSM 90
 
I commend those efforts you are all making... One comment though is that Kathy has a very full plate and where she has not mentioned a word on this (from what I know) I bet she would be a bit suprised with everyone assuming that she will take on the responsability to talk to the track. I personally think that the proper way to deal with this would be to bring these issues up at the next comp board meeting. Work with the rest of the comp board to see what the best way to handle this would be, afterall that is why we have a road racing comp board.

Raymond
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Raymond, you are truly right. Not having been really active for a while, I'm now learning about how the responsibilities have changed through the years. And Kathy is one to take on too much as SCCA has been her life for SO long. And (forgive me for forgetting) :018: :018: the Comp Board was designed for just such issues. I think those of you who have really responded to this thread should address the comp board as a group. (MHO).
Also, I wonder if the amount of rain we have had up here is adding to the issue. (Turn 6-7 outside). The runoff after a huge downpour this past Wed. was tremendous and remember, places on NHIS where there is now pavement, used to be underwater. Dave, you will definately remember where I mean. Raymond, you may or may not remember, you were pretty little then.....but, to add to that, the water table in this area is excessively high and it seems that anywhere there is gravel of anysort, it just seems to sink into never never land or run away so to speak.
Again, good luck as a group. And I don't think that too much political BS will happen if you have the comp board behind you.
 
I personally wouldnt change anything with the track....it's a challenge and a challenge is good. if we wanted easy we could drive on the highway. On the other hand what I have a problem with is what MOST of you are saying. The runoff areas....i am new to the SCCA and from the few times I'v been on track I loved how difficult it was in turns 3 and 11 particularly. Unfortunately never used the south chicaine but it looks like a challenge also. There were a couple times I ran the right sides off the outside of the bowl as I came out and the same for turn 11 and I never want to do it again. Along with a fense or wall of some sort after the bowl, pave the damn runoffs in 11 and out of the bowl. We actually shoudnt be so modest we put a LOT of cash into that track and the least they could do is care about us a little more instead of adding a foot of asphalt every year or two. But dont touch the track, it's hard and makes us drivers use our heads at all times....cant say that for LRP.

Dan
#4 ITS
 
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