NHMS happeneings

I started my Club Racing efforts in IT over 20 years ago. IT was the entry level to Club Racing. There were several inexperienced drivers in the field at that time, much like Spec Miata has today.

At one of the early NHIS races (All IT cars were in one race group) the qualifying session looked more like a Mad Max highway scene than a road race. Cars were hitting each other almost everywhere on the course.

The Chief Steward, Bruce Kapstein, called all the IT drivers in after the session and read them the riot act about contact. The “talk” later became known as the “F’ing Ashtray Speech”. Those who were around certainly remembered it. Basically he laid down the law that any contact during the race would result in a black flag consultation for ALL involved, regardless of fault.

The race started with the field going thru Turn 3 on Lap 1, three wide, but there was NO contact. In fact the entire race was run without anyone being black flagged for contact.

For the last 2 years I have been racing in GTL at the National level. The Small Bore grouping at National races has accepted the no contact philosophy. In those two years I have had only one incident of car to car contact and that resulted in only a paint scuff.

The point I am trying to make is, if the drivers accept “no contact” racing, even novice drivers can race clean. It is a matter of establishing a mindset or culture within that racing community that contact will not be tolerated.
 
I have been racing door to door with all the people in this race group for three years without contact and now that I have made a driving error, and because I drive a Miata, I am some kind of an idiot or jerk.

All I can say is:

1. I went out of my way to find Dick in the paddock area on my way out, to apologize as I probably didn't give him adequate room. Although I will say that I was hit in the rear quarter and think if BRAKES had been applied the incident could have been avoided. Maybe not. Either way I took the responsibility and still do.

Well I have most likely said more that I should have, but it is not fair to other responsible Miata drivers to be painted with the same brush. Think about it![/quote]


Jim,
I applaud you for posting your side, as it helps clear up misunderstandings. I hope you are not an idiot, nor a jerk - and in this case, I hope you can listen, as well as think about it:

I don't want to race with you.

I say that, because I don't think you understand the rules of door to door racing. By your statement, you have told me that your racing philosophy is dangerous and unsportsmanlike.

By suggesting that someone should have to hit the brakes as the only course of action to avoid either going off course or hitting a passing competitor shows that you have not comprehended the rules of our sport.

To Quote GCR 6.8.1 B: "All competitors have a right to "racing room" on the marked surface..."
6.8.1 C: " It shall be incumbent on all drivers to preserve the right of his fellow competitors to racing room on the race track."
6.8.1 D: "The responsibility for the decision to pass another car and to accomplish it safely rests with the overtaking car."

No where does it say "you can cut someone off as you pass, as soon as your front fender is ahead of your competitors".

I have had my share of on track contact, and probably 50% was my fault. I tried to pass someone in 3, locked up my tires as they turned in on the apex and spun them. I have stayed on track when my car was off pace, and gotten in people's way, no matter how hard I tried to point and stay on my line. I don't race often enough to keep my skills (and my head) where it should be by now. That being said, the most important thing to me is knowing that my competitors feel comfortable going door to door with me, knowing that I will race them hard and clean.

I have also raced on a track about twice as tight as NHIS, where passes typically took 2 to 3 turns to complete. Through those turns, we would run side by side, without contact, until we CLEARED the other car, before we resumed the 'racing line'. As racers, that is both the art of our craft, and the most rewarding part of our sport.

We've had this discussion on what is considered 'racing room', and the latest version of the GCR focuses on the responsibility of the passee. I think it should, as I think too often people believe racing room is only a requirement once someone has a fender on you. My version? Racing room starts when you anticipate someone will have their front wheel up to your rear wheel, going into the corner (rediculous dive bombs excluded). My approach may cause me to be passed more often than others, but it avoids getting myself punted, as well.

I wasn't at NHIS this past weekend, so my statements are solely based on what was posted. To be honest, what was stated got under my skin.
 
I don't usually post here, but do check in from time to time. I've run with the NER several times over the past few season in my ITA Miata. When I first arrived to the school DRIVING my car with a small trailer behind it, tech thought I was crazy.

"YOU DO KNOW WHAT HAPPENS AT THESE EVENTS, RIGHT? WOW, AND YOU ARE IN ITA TO BOOT"

The Miata bashing is a compete joke. Comments that indicate typical Miata drivers are talentless hacks who use their "easy to drive" Miata to look like super heros are just laughable. Seriously. If you believe that, than you probably have bigger issues to deal with, not the least of which could involve compensating for any shortcomings attributed to your anatomy. Is this the distorted reality you cling to when you get passed by an "uber-Miata" piloted by a talentless hack? Jeez! How do you get through the night?!?!

Reading some of the posts on this forum, I have never been so let down by what I thought was a talented group of friendly racing buddies.

Jim is a stand-up guy and gentleman. Unlike several people I've met over the years, Jim had spent YEARS on-track in hot-lapping and time trial competition before even thinking about joining the SCCA and getting into wheel-to-wheel racing. From following him, I know he is a clean driver. I can't speak to this particular incident because I was not there. All I know about the incident is what I've read in this post. Worst case scenerio, it sounds like a mistake was made. Whatever happened to the benefit of the doubt?

Sounds like the stewards brought them in for a chat. Perfect! In my opinion, this is an improvement of leaps and bounds over past scenerios. I have witnessed plenty of mistakes and the unfortunate results of poor decision making in my relatively short years running in ITA. In my experience the Miata to "other car" involvement ratio is considerably lower than the ratio of Miata to "other car" list of ITA entrants.

I'm with Jerry. I'm an ITA guy first, and "Miata" guy second.

The Miata bashing is petty. Certainly we can find more constructive things to do with our time and improve OUR group. I've run wheel-to-wheel with several guys in the NER, lots of class-acts and friendly types, and I trust the tainted few do not speak for the silent majority. I've had tons of fun over the past few seasons, and look forward to doing so sometime soon.
 
With all due respect Will, I think you are responding to things that have not been said. Yes I feel I was wronged. Running HPDE events does not prepare someone for the situation we are talking about. I think actually it is a hindrance in exactly this type of situation requiring some things to be unlearned. Yes I do think there are more problems at midpack with Miatas than other car and driver combinations. I and others have speculated as to some of the objective reasons that might be so. Yes I believe a mistake was made, Jim seems not so sure.
Sincerely,
One of the tainted few
 
Anyone watch the ALMS race on SPEED this past weekend? The one at Lime Rock? Of course you did!

There were two similar incidents at the uphill chicane. In one, a Prototype car moved to the right to pass a GT Aston Martin in the braking zone, then moved left to get back "on line" for the right hand corner. But the Aston hadn't vaporized, and the P car made contact, (LR to RF) resulting in a mess, and the fist/ finger being shown/flailed at the Aston driver by the P car driver.

Huh?

You know where I'm going here....

The p car driver should have apologised for the incident, since he moved over before there was room. It was his fault. NO doubt about it. He failed to give racing room, and his subsequent display was rather elitist.

From the description of the incident here, it appears that is exactly what happened, The overtaken car left room to pass, and stayed as far to the edge (left) of the track as possible. The overtaking car failed to respect that, and assumed the overtaken car should, essentially, pull over, slam on his brakes in an acceleration zone, or, I guess, even better, vaporize.

Although I will say that I was hit in the rear quarter and think if BRAKES had been applied the incident could have been avoided.
Click to expand...

I think the incident could have been avoided if the passing car left room for the passee, and didn't hit said passee..

That's disappointing to me, and I really don't care if it's a Miata or a Ferrari, the mindset appears (from the typed words of the driver here) to not be in line with a "share the track" philosophy. I hope it's just a misunderstanding and a poor choice of words, but when you are passing someone, who did you a favor by moving over for you, it's just polite to not force them off the track.
 
WillM said:
... Comments ... are just laughable ... you probably have bigger issues ... involv[ing] compensating for any shortcomings attributed to your anatomy ... distorted reality you cling to when you get passed by an "uber-Miata"... Jeez! How do you get through the night?!?!
Click to expand...
Wow, well said. Don't know about the rest of you guys, but I'm convinced.

GA

(P.S., you left out: "DOES IT MAKE YOU FEEL MORE LIKE A MAN TO BEAT UP THE MIATAS?!?!?!?!")

Just sayin'.
 
Hmm ...

I sense a tattoo craze (or at least bumper stickers, perhaps to replace ZOOM-ZOOM) about to sweep the NER SM community:

TAINTED FEW


------
Steve Ulfelder
Flatout Motorsports
05 ITS
 
No Steve you have it backwards, it is we haters who are the tainted few. Maybe vigilantes are going to tag our cars in the middle of the night. :rolleyes:
 
ulfelder said:
I sense a tattoo craze (or at least bumper stickers, perhaps to replace ZOOM-ZOOM) about to sweep the NER SM community:

TAINTED FEW


------
Steve Ulfelder
Flatout Motorsports
05 ITS
Click to expand...

Low post count, but high post effect! Good to hear from you Steve! You have a new car in the works?
 
Wasn't that a song?

All right fine, I'll take the bait. When ITB is grouped with SM do I get more nervous / ready for body contact? You better believe it. Since I'm married, have a kid, and drive a Honda it doesn't matter the size of my anatomy. :shrug: My personal belief or reasons why I think it happens in SM would be the same thing in other popular Spec sedan classes too if that was happening and at least seemed to be accepted.
 
Ah, young Will. You are lucky enough to have learned your ways in ITA instead of SM/SSM. Drive with them for a few races and see if your opinions change!! :cool:


Jeff "Hung like Yoda" Lawton
 
Jeff, Jeff, Jeff....... do we really want to know how you've determined Yoda's "hang size"??

(Good thing we saw you at the last event with a nice companion...;0 )
 
lateapex911 said:
Low post count, but high post effect! Good to hear from you Steve! You have a new car in the works?
Click to expand...

Hey Jake. We are building up an ITS '99 Miata as my 2009 ride, but the RX-7 ran great last weekend (tracked down some electrical gremlins), so I'm all set this year.

Steve
 
I personally would like to take the anti-Miata momentum and have Andy removed from ITA. Any seconds.... anyone, Bueller?



PS. Jim, I think your alright in my book and I'll race with you anyday.

PPS. Jeff, I just knew it..........

PPS. Isn't there someway to turn this into a Greg/Andy fight?????


R
 
OK, I'm declaring peace......... I'll run with any of the guys in this group. I've said it before, over and over. It is the best group I've run with since being in the SCCA. Seriously.
 
Oh man, you're such a dork Jeff.

"I love you ITA guys, I love you." :026: "You like my Saturn too, right?"

....good thing ITB & ITA aren't grouped together otherwise I've a Saturn decal on my rear bumper after the next event. LOL
 
This thread has gotten a little too nasty. I am concerned by the behavior that has been demonstrated here. I sure hope that it is all talk and that people will be courteous on the track.

I have driven with the ITA group and have enjoyed it. Linda really likes the group and feels it is like an extended family. And she drives one of those M word things.

I have witnessed rough driving and contact among the front runners in this class with cars put off.

Geez Dick, I have great respect for you and believe you are a great, ethical, upfront kind of guy and enjoy seeing and talking to you at the track.

But.......You are freaking me out here.

There just needs to be more cooperation in general when we get into a race car. Maybe some open discussion should be held at the drivers meeting. Maybe there should be more driver meetings during the weekend. Back when we raced laydown Karts at Summit Point we used to get a lecture before each race. The point was safety and not needing to get the "Ambalance" out.

In the SM Race Andrez started at the back(his qualifying time was dissallowed) and was coming towards the front fast. I was trying to hold off another car but it made sense to point Andrez by on the way into 6 as it did not hurt either of us. I would have lost lots more time trying to go side by side in 6 and would have slowed his progress needlessly. He was much faster than me.

This is not meant in any way to piss anyone off.

I'm done now. Sorry for the rant.

Phil The other number 88 ITA / SM / SSM
 
Doc - I would second the motion to remove Mr. Bettencourt from ITA, but my post above is proof that I posses neither the vocabulary nor sarcasm to stand in the same posting league as Greg, let alone run toe-to-toe as Andy can. The comedy of Andy and our self-described Captain Panties is what keeps this place interesting and must be retained at all costs!!:D

Phil - I agree with your concerns, but don't believe for a minute that online disagreements would lead to on-track altercations. One common theme expressed by all posters in this thread is that less contact = more better. :eclipsee_steering:

Jeff - "Young". Ha! I wish!

To all winners at NHMS - congratulations! Wish I had been there.
 
Come on Phil, freaking you out? I did not call Jim out. I gave a race report. Jim volunteered an explanation that was inadequate in my thinking and I pointed out my disagreement with it as did a couple of others. If Jim is being abused it is for his typed words not the actual incident.

Compare if you will this to the reaction to Brad’s post. Brad after research found he was most likely at fault in his incident and came here and said so. They call that being a man. After reading his post I am left with the belief that he will take this experience into account in his future race. Unfortunately I have no reason to think that with my incident.

Guys I am all about the teaching moment.

By the way I hope you can get the cars patched up by August. After Linda’s great drive Saturday she did not deserve you messing up HER car.
 
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