Noise complaint group at NJMP

dickita15 said:
Having been thru the task of permitting a track I could not agree more that we would be better off if we ran at a lower sound level. It does not hurt the quality of racing one bit and make survival of our sport much easier. NHMS forces us to run at 100 dB so we went with that limit for our new track.
When you start running numbers on sound it is amazing how far it travels. By the way background measurements of sound levels in rural Palmer were 42dB. Sound barriers are problematic because to be effective they must be very close to the sound source compromising safety.
When I built a new exhaust for my Rx7 about six years ago I tried to see how quiet I could go. With presilencers the car never was over 89dB, now that the system in older it has come in as high as 93 at some events. For another data point when the Busch cars ran at Lime Rock a few years ago we measured then at 120dB.
There is no reason we could not be racing at 85 or 90dB. I would rather pay for mufflers and testing that to have to tow an additional 5 hours to race.
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^^ This.
 
The problem will be that a couple of pro-FA (or what ever feeder series replaces FA) guys will show up and get flagged for sound:shrug: It's easy to add mufflers on production based/sized cars, formula cars are a horse of a different color.

I don't think one track in all of Cal-Club has sound limits... Cal-Speedway is surrounded by city but the nearest neighbor is a rail yard and steel mills. Our sound guy was (he moved out of region and hasn't been replaced) measuring sound for cotton plants. Contrast this with NASA with no sound limits...
 
... a couple of pro-FA (or what ever feeder series replaces FA) guys will show up and get flagged for sound

Bah. It's totally doable. The formula and SR guys/gals said the same thing when the current sound limits were imposed. "Impossible!"

BS.

K
 
I just hope that the noise issue can be resolved to the satisfaction of all, and that the track can continue to operate as normal as possible.

The problem with these situations is that they eventually become political. And as an area continues to develop, the political power tends to shift from the offending entity (racetrack, airport, etc.)to the nearby communities.
 
Knestis said:
... a couple of pro-FA (or what ever feeder series replaces FA) guys will show up and get flagged for sound

Bah. It's totally doable. The formula and SR guys/gals said the same thing when the current sound limits were imposed. "Impossible!"

BS.

K
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The Pro guys don't have a sound limit, and you're forgetting the NASA angle. I know of one SR guy who was arguing that same point just before the CRB repealed the national sound limits. Like I said our region no longer has a sound guy...
 
Z3_GoCar said:
The problem will be that a couple of pro-FA (or what ever feeder series replaces FA) guys will show up and get flagged for sound:shrug: It's easy to add mufflers on production based/sized cars, formula cars are a horse of a different color.

I don't think one track in all of Cal-Club has sound limits... Cal-Speedway is surrounded by city but the nearest neighbor is a rail yard and steel mills. Our sound guy was (he moved out of region and hasn't been replaced) measuring sound for cotton plants. Contrast this with NASA with no sound limits...
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The Skip Barber formula cars that run at Laguna Seca are under 85db. When they do fail sound, it's usually a body work or wing rattle! lol It's a simple exhaust mod to do plus a lil retune. Anyone running one of those cars (FA or whatever) sure can afford it...
 
Less noise= less pissed off neighbors. (PON)
So, your sitting around your barby, having a beer, while the freakin race track is running. Does it matter that it has been there 20years? No. The noise is a bother. Do your next door folks think the same thing??
Noise is about the only thing that can unite a neigbhorhood.
The law has no value if the elected officials want to lower the noise level.
We leave our circle track when the mods come out,
the race cars are just too loud.
Why is it a pleasure to get in your tow car, and drive home, nice and quiet? The race car was too loud!!
Most enduro drivers will run faster laps, for a longer period of time if the car is quiet, IMHO.
If you want to have race tracks for racing,not golf, then the tracks should not piss off the locals. IMHO.
 
As a guy that lives on Long Island and used to race at Bridghampton all the time, and now have to go 3 hours to Lime Rock the next closest track, you should all be woried.

A few very vocal, organized and politically active people can gain enough support to, restrict the sound level, number of days or operation, ect.... untill like Bridghampton it becomes financialy unprofitable, then it becomes a golf course. I hate golf.

The problem with these people are, they are never satisfied, you can muffle, and it's still not quiet enough. If you were driving street cars on the track they would be complaining.
 
The problem with these people are, they are never satisfied, you can muffle, and it's still not quiet enough. If you were driving street cars on the track they would be complaining.
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The last time we went to the Bridge my dad's Suburban failed the sound test.
 
Adopting lower noise limits makes a lot of sense. We'd all be much better off and enjoy a slight boost to our image.

What could be extremely troubling is different tracks adopting vastly different noise limits. Trying to hit 100dB here, 80dB there, and 90dB over there will be a lot of work. Sure, you could go for the lowest common denominator but one of your competitors will end up tuning the exhaust for each track and picking up a minor advantage over those that done. But a low, club wide noise limit for the entire SCCA would knock some cars out of racing.

General Aviation faces similar threats to small airports all across the country. As mentioned, organized efforts like this one, even by a handful of people, can have disastrous effects. Disastrous depending on which side of the fence you're on.
 
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SAE J1169 is one objective procedure used in the automotive exhaust industry to validate an exhaust system for road use. States like California were having a HUGE battle with the sport compact car crowd on "excessive noise" on modified cars. Lots of tickets were being written on subjective opinions. SEMA worked with the police and SAE, and this objective test was developed. The California law was written such that a car was legal if it recorded a reading of less than 95 dBA when tested to the procedure. Exhaust manufactures can now easily certify their systems for California. I know a few East coast states have now adopted the California law as well. The basic test is a microphone is placed at 0.5 m at 45 degrees to the tailpipe and the engine is held at 3/4 of the engine speed at rated horsepower. The result must be below 95 dBA. It's a very simple test to run, and could easily be modified to fit various classes. For example, what's the 3/4 rated speed of a GT car? Don't know, but the rule for GT cars may be <95 dBA at 5000 rpm. Some testing would be required to correlate this test to track side testing, but I think it could be done and would allow competitors to quiet their cars without track testing. Also, since cars are tested individually, the effect of other cars racing in a pack is eliminated. Finally, noise does NOT equal horsepower and so I agree with others that a more proactive approach needs to be taken on this noise issue before more tracks are shut down.
 
"But a low, club wide noise limit for the entire SCCA would knock some cars out of racing."

This comment befuddles me. How does the addition of a muffler completely void the function of a car? Lap records may not be set for a few years, but completely knocking cars out of racing because a muffler needs to be retrofit? I don't buy it.
 
John Herman said:
SEMA worked with the police and SAE, and this objective test was developed. The California law was written such that a car was legal if it recorded a reading of less than 95 dBA when tested to the procedure. Exhaust manufactures can now easily certify their systems for California. I know a few East coast states have now adopted the California law as well. The basic test is a microphone is placed at 0.5 m at 45 degrees to the tailpipe and the engine is held at 3/4 of the engine speed at rated horsepower.
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SEMA / CA adopted this almost straight word for word from the UK sound laws governing most tracks. 1/2 meter, 3/4 max engine speed, 45 degree angle from the collector output. Works for most engines/vehicles but is a difficult hurdle for many, such as GT40 / Lola / Can Am cars with a large displacement engine located midship with a very short length of exhaust to work with.
 
The SJR/NJRRS banquet is at the NJMP Officer's Club on 1/30. I'll ask about this concern.

Also, the SCCA National Convention is in Vegas this same weekend. I'm sure 'noise' will be a hot topic. Anyone attending this year? In March we have the NEDiv Round Table in New Jersey, this will also be a topic for discussion.
 
Karl Bocchieri said:
As a guy that lives on Long Island and used to race at Bridghampton all the time, and now have to go 3 hours to Lime Rock the next closest track, you should all be woried.

A few very vocal, organized and politically active people can gain enough support to, restrict the sound level, number of days or operation, ect.... untill like Bridghampton it becomes financialy unprofitable, then it becomes a golf course. I hate golf.

The problem with these people are, they are never satisfied, you can muffle, and it's still not quiet enough. If you were driving street cars on the track they would be complaining.
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Karl, the Bridgehampton situation is much different. !- you live on an island. It take YOU forever to get anywhere off the island, but the reverse is true...getting rigs and pro teams to the Bridge was a major PIA. That, and once there, accomodations were difficult, at best. Further, the track was guilty of not keeping up with the times. perhaps it ws because of the impossibility of attracting pro level events due to it's isalnd location , but, in the end, the finacial realities meant that the land was far more valuable when repurposed. Just as a golf range in a suburb gets eaten by development.

Lime Rock faces similar issues. PIA to get to for the big rigs, and difficult to find accomodations that are nearby.

NJMP has none of those issues.

However, the town and the track should cooperate and try to make a reasonable effort at blocking the sound, even if it pus large walls up right next to the track. I have no issue with SCCA looking at noise limits, but we have to remember that we're not the only ones on any particular track. Perhaps NJMP will be granted certain "current level" limit days, and the rest gets knocked down.....investigation will reveal whether this woman has a case or not, but politics are the overiding issue here.
 
dtanthon said:
The SJR/NJRRS banquet is at the NJMP Officer's Club on 1/30. I'll ask about this concern.

Also, the SCCA National Convention is in Vegas this same weekend. I'm sure 'noise' will be a hot topic. Anyone attending this year? In March we have the NEDiv Round Table in New Jersey, this will also be a topic for discussion.
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Darrell, I was planning on asking the CRB if there has been any discussion but if anyone thinks a lower standard it I good idea a quick note to the CRB would be a good idea.
 
The Lola and Gt 40/can am cars can use the real racer mufflers that late models use. Two 4in in , with a balance chamber, one 5 or6 in turnout. Makes 650 hp tolerable at 50 ft. Borla, Flowmaster, Shoenfield. Do a quick search , .
Check that, the T70 would have to put two mufflers in the fender wells. A balnce pipe would have to pass the gearbox and bodywork, not .
Boat stuffers was used on the street conversion for these cars.
Street T 70, yeah. 450 hp,on off clutch, Hewland crashh box, shitty brakes cold, what could go wrong?? MM
 
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