OT: Small car or big car for first time driver

Im new to this post but i want to adress something...putting someone inexperienced in some vehicle that is "big" and "safe" just means if he loses it in the thing not only will he get hurt but he will hurt others too...the budget is around 3k? gas is a premium now...he has many options...a good used 1994 or 95 integra ls is cheap and good mileage...used 95 and up maximas appeal to the younger gen and are very safe...i think he would be better in a front driver unless he really has his heart set on something....also make sure he learns to drive a stick...even if he is not an enthusiast...he will learn more car control naturally...just my opinion

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Evan Darling
ITA Integra
 
If we all want to be completely safe in this world, lock yourself in a room and never do anything...
Sorry, but safety is not guaranteed in this world.
This is also the land of the free. If someone wants to drive a huge, honking Escalade, then it is their right to do so.
Where was all this emotional fear of big vehicles 20 years ago?
A full size one ton van is easily as big as any SUV, just as an F350 is. They have been around for a very long time.
Why hasnt anyone mentioned on here about teaching your kids yourself? Society these days wants to do nothing but give our children over to others for their education.
I would certainly hope that any parent who has been driving and racing for the last 20 years would know a thing or two about defensive driving. Teach your kids, preferably starting from a young age. I remember sitting on my dad's lap at age 10 and steering while my dad gave instruction.
Why is this so difficult for parents?
Number one cause of accidents is failure to yeild right of way. Teach defensive driving, and these can be avoided.
When I was a teenager a city garbage truck turned into my Volks Super Beetle. Talk about a huge hunk of iron...
I could have been killed.
Oh well, get over it, and get on with life.
I'm not out protesting city garbage trucks...
matt
 
Matt,

The difference 30 years ago was most everyone was driving large vehicles so you collisions were between two cars of similar size. Now we have a big disparity between large SUVs and smallel econo cars. Also, people used to think seatbelts weren't a big deal, so the publics perception of safety is not a good argument. I'm not saying we should boycot large vehicles. I'm just saying that if you're only reason to buy one is so that you're causing more damage than you receive than that isn't a very socially responsible decision.

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~Matt Rowe
ITA Shelby Charger
MARRS #96
 
"Number one cause of accidents is failure to yeild right of way."

Well, it is a cause but certainly wouldn't say it is the number one cause.

Wayne - I personally would recommend the older Integra as someone else previously mentioned. The 240sx is also a nice car. I would stay away from anything too quick! Yes I know, I'm sure your son is very responsible. But that's what my parents thought too.
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Get a friend in the car and well...sometimes esp. at that age a teenager might just push the car a bit. I know I did. Also consider how much it will cost to repair the car when it breaks especially if he'll be using it at HPDEs.

Sorry, shameless plug for another IT driver who co-owns the advanced driver training program in MA... Interesting site and worthwhile course.

www.incontroladt.com

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Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si

[This message has been edited by gran racing (edited April 30, 2005).]
 
<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">Why is this so difficult for parents?</font>
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Speaking for myself, at 15-16 I likely would not have taken my father's skills in serious light. He may have been the best driver in the world at the time, but when I was 16 years old he was pretty much a dumb-ass bastard. It's simply *amazing* how smart he got about the time I turned 22-23...and so quickly, too...
smile.gif


Same goes for other things, like flying. I tried to teach my wife the basics on how to fly an airplane; we both got frustrated trying. I sent her up with a CFI buddy of mine and she picked it up quick. Funny thing, I did the same for his wife, she wasn't as bad as he described!
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All I'm saying here is that sometimes it needs to come from a somewhat-objective third party; being able to toss around someone else's car on a racetrack for your 16th birthday is, truly, icing on the cake...
 
You know maybe you may not think of this but how about a neon,ford focus,fox body 4cyl mustang. All cars that you can buy a roll cage for and install very cheap. To insure the safety of the ocupants inside . All though nothing is 100% safe you can at least help the odds by adding safety equipment to the car and at an affordable cost because of prefab components. You also take away the back seat by doing this. Thus alowing only one passenger in the car and hopfully the use of 5 point harness to hold them in ther seats.

Just a thought

Kurt Jackson
IT7 #59
 
Jake, I will soon be having the same dilema that you are currently going through. My 15 year old daughter has already started talking about "her" car that I will be getting her. She keeps commenting on this one and that one but she fails to realize I already know what I will get her ( if I get one for her)

Having been in the fire service for over 20 years and responding to more than my share of crashes one car stands out head and shoulders above the rest for occupant safety. That would be the Ford Taurus. Those things are tanks. I've seen them run into things or hit by things and you would swear that the people in the Taurus were killed or seriously injured. But those people were standing around waiting for us to show up.
 
Well, I was really talking about 20 yrs ago, not 30. In the early eighties, compacts were pretty popular/common.
I really dont think anyone goes out and buys a big SUV with the intention of "creating more damage or injury" then they recieve. I think they buy them for more room and for the safety factor. If some idiot driving a subcompact runs a light and hits them, they wont have to worry about the safety of their families.
I was a cop for several years back in the mid nineties and the most common cause of accidents was failure to yeild right of way. Drunk drivers were up there on the statistics...
This may have changed in the 10 years since I worked in public service.
So far as respecting our fathers skills/knowledge, I always did. Maybe this is strange these days, dont know.
Before long, I was able to out drive my dad, but in my early teens there was no lack of respect.
Kids are smarter then some parents give them credit for. They can see if the parent knows what theyre talking about so far as driving/racing.
I think a lot of times parents get caught up in making money/having careers (both parents working) rather then spending time with the kids.
When I was 17 my dad took me to a racing school where we drove formula fords. Great for racing know how, but doesnt really help on the streets. Drive your kids and teach. When they come of age, sit with them as they drive you to the grocery store, and teach them
matt
 
Originally posted by GregAmy:
Speaking for myself, at 15-16 I likely would not have taken my father's skills in serious light. He may have been the best driver in the world at the time, but when I was 16 years old he was pretty much a dumb-ass bastard.
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This is so very true indeed, and that's why my son will get instruction from other people in addition to myself. I've seen it in baseball and firearms with my son, and I see no reason that it will be any different for defensive driving instruction.

As Greg mentioned, I think it is important for the kid to hear the message from someone other than "just dad".

Even though I have a fairly extensive competitive firearms training background. I made sure my son took every NRA class (with a different instructor than myself) before taking up a particular firearm discipline.

When he was playing little league baseball, I would constantly try to get him to close up his stance, and not roll his wrist over quite so much during his swing. "Ya, ya, dad I know, I know".

One game, the score was tied in the last inning, two outs, one on, and my son was due up. When he was in the warm-up circle one of the other parents walked over and showed him about closing his stance and rolling over his wrist (like I had done countless times).

He goes out and hits a home-run, winning the game. On the drive home he says, "Mr. Nelson showed me this new stance that I think helped me to hit the homerun"....
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Wayne
 
Originally posted by gran racing:
[B Yes I know, I'm sure your son is very responsible. But that's what my parents thought too.
smile.gif
Get a friend in the car and well...sometimes esp. at that age a teenager might just push the car a bit. I know I did. [/B]
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Well, if he is anything like I was at 16, we are going to have a problem. That's one of the reasons I'm so adamant about him taking some sort of additional defensive driver training.

I put my moms prized thunderbird in the ditch a mere 5 hours after I left the dol testing station with my drivers license. Needless to say, Dad was none to happy. After the "counseling session" was done he told me if I wanted to have a lead foot I needed to do my racing on the track.

Once I started racing on the track, my respect for the power of an automobile grew immensely, and my speeding tickets fell to almost nil. I'm hoping to skip the whole wrecking cars bit with my sons driving adventures.

But I'll tell you what, that 429 four barrel thunderjet V8 engine in that thunderbird sure would roast those tires!
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Wayne
 
<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">Bigger is beater.</font>
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This doesn't always apply have any of you guys seen all the airbags in the new MINI!!
That thing turns in to one big airbag!!

I realize this is not the solution to the problem but i thought it was funny when i saw all the air bags in my dad's new Cooper.

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Eric W. Chance
2000 Mazda Miata C-Stock
1964 1/2 Mustang (For Sale)
 
Several references have been made (above) to the Saturn being desirable because of the automatic seatbelt feature. My step-daughter has a '94 which I got to fix this weekend, and it has those belts.

I am guessing that those automatic belts work if you are the whatever percentile person who actually fits in them properly. In her car the belt is actually 6-8 inches in front of me (I'm 6'2"), which strikes me as waaaay to much room for my torso to accelerate before I get to it - kinda like leaving the shoulder harnesses loose in the race car. The rotten child also has fitment issues, as do many people I have seen in cars like these, and as I have had in various other cars so equipped (late 80's Camrys, early 90's Accords, and any VW).

Or am I missing something?
 
I wouldn't say they were being touted as a good thing, I was just mentioning that it had them.

I do agree with you, though. If you have legs, the belts may not contact you depending on your driving position. In my accident, I had a much different driving position that kep the belt near me, but not in contact (not quite the 2" you have). I can say, though, that I never hit the airbag (belts stopped me) and I do remember looking at the bag during the wreck (I even remember seeing the horn shroud split in half and thinking "Oh fudge. This is not good!").

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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com
 
In picking a car for a teenager, I would hesitate to take recommendations based on anecdotal evidence. Too many parents believe that putting their kids in a tank offers the best protection. It's not necessarily true - some small cars offer better crash protection for the occupants than pickup trucks or SUV's.

Do a little research and do the best you can to instill a responsible attitude among your kids. I know it's difficult because we all remember what we were like as teenagers.

One of my best friends took a rather unorthodox approach to his teens' first cars. He avoided cars with passive restraints, air bags, or antilock brakes because he felt (and I agree to a certain extent) that these safety advances have made so many drivers feel invincible that defensive driving has become a lost art. He also removed the radios from the cars until they had been driving on their own for at least two years.

Bob Hudson
Atlanta
 
No radio? Ouch! I so would have put a big boom box in the back seat which would have been even more dangerous.

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Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si
 
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