FWIW, there are 3 Fiero's that regularly run at WHRRI. Don't know the specific yrs/models. Two ITA cars and an ITB. Occasionaly we get a GT2 Fiero out there. Also, at our SCCA/WHRRI dual Reg. there was another ITA which is the one i believe Tderonne was refering to. I've never seen one built to the nines either.
Pontiac Fiero?
- Thread starter BoostedLoser
- Start date
madrabbit15
New member
I built a street fiero 4 cylinder when i was 15, from the ground up, and I can tell you i think there is some major potential there. Most of what i did was IT legal, and I ran the stock throttle body and it reved very nicely. Finding or having a really good header for it I think would be the key, the stock exhaustmanifold is horrible, I just reworked mine, and ran a 2.5 pipe through a superturbo muffler, no cat, and it was fast. kicked the butt of all those guys with their 16v vws. The horrible suspension is easily fixed with the delrin bushings for it. did not really do much with the cam or the compression, but i swear it was as fast as a lot of v6s. But if your gonna build a fiero, i think the V6 has more potential for its class.
airpiraterob
New member
so just what is the suspension design like and how adjustable can it really be? (how muhc lowering can one do before hitting that 5" min.?)
Wayne Schultz
New member
You can lower the car alot. It rides on it's bump stops at about 3-1/2". I know because I had some (Cheap) lowering springs and they eventually full collapsed. I guess the Koni's overpowered them. You shouldn't have any problem lowering the front by either using Eibachs or cutting coils.
airpiraterob
New member
perhaps someone can help me understand this but as i understood it, the engine location and car design didnt allow a standard sized oil pan to be installed, therefore not enough volume to feed it and therefore reduced RPM redline. any truth to this? specific to both 4's and 6's or just one in particular? what i remember from riding in the 6 once was "my goodness...thats an awfully low redline"..but then it is a torque motor. oh yeah, the last few years of the 6 had the Getrag 5 speed tranny....very quality stuff
[This message has been edited by airpiraterob (edited August 22, 2003).]
[This message has been edited by airpiraterob (edited August 22, 2003).]
No.
Same cradle and hence oil pan as their FWD conterparts.
4 bangers did go to a 3 quart fill in '87 I believe as a cost/weight save.
Ok if you changed your oil.
Not ok when dealers remove the plant installed oil filer (different/unique) at 80,000 miles...
And the V6 got the 5 speed in late '86.
Wayne Schultz
New member
The Fiero was born as an economy 2 seater. To keep costs low everthing other than the body came out of the existing GM Parts bin. (The body was GM's first experiment with plastic body panels.) The corporate 4 banger at the time was the venerable "Iron Duke." It's oilpan hung to far below the chassis. Instead of designing an expensive replacement that would keep the designed capacity GM just shortened the pan and its capacity to around 4 qts. Throw in some defective push rods and you got some really hot oil hitting plastic, and Poof! Fire!
The V-6 fit with no changes required to Oil Pan.
The V-6 fit with no changes required to Oil Pan.
airpiraterob
New member
heres a little research...dunno how old this link info is tho.
http://www.fiero.org/text/hpp1.html
its what, 2790 for the v6, whats the weight for the 4 in ITB?
[This message has been edited by airpiraterob (edited August 22, 2003).]
http://www.fiero.org/text/hpp1.html
its what, 2790 for the v6, whats the weight for the 4 in ITB?
[This message has been edited by airpiraterob (edited August 22, 2003).]
(up on soap box)
The fiero started life as a back and forth from work car, then someone a Pontiac said...this thing could be fun. A chevy truck engine was installed and BOOM car was fun...a little later nip here tuck there this thing out corners a Corvette...someone a Pontiac says "lets stick a quad4 in this sucker" it will be lighter the the 6 make more power we will have a real two seat sports car here...Someone at chevy says "Pontiac is building a two seats sports car...GM only has one two seat sports car AND IT IS BETTER AND CHEAPER THAN OURS something has to be done about that" So GM kills the fiero, it made money every year it was made and was killed for "projected profit losses" and the 89 prototype with the turbo quad4 is crushed.
(off soap box)
sorry I get testy when ever the Fiero comes up...it was a great car that was killed for no other reason other then corprate politics.
The fiero started life as a back and forth from work car, then someone a Pontiac said...this thing could be fun. A chevy truck engine was installed and BOOM car was fun...a little later nip here tuck there this thing out corners a Corvette...someone a Pontiac says "lets stick a quad4 in this sucker" it will be lighter the the 6 make more power we will have a real two seat sports car here...Someone at chevy says "Pontiac is building a two seats sports car...GM only has one two seat sports car AND IT IS BETTER AND CHEAPER THAN OURS something has to be done about that" So GM kills the fiero, it made money every year it was made and was killed for "projected profit losses" and the 89 prototype with the turbo quad4 is crushed.
(off soap box)
sorry I get testy when ever the Fiero comes up...it was a great car that was killed for no other reason other then corprate politics.
airpiraterob
New member
last one from me....
i know the 88 4 cyl is classified ITB, did this particular model get the improved suspension like the 6 did? what i dont know is its classified weight. ive also heard talk of 120 hp 4cyl motors being a very real possibility if in IT spec. very good topic. its one of the things that really makes you go hmmmm...
i know the 88 4 cyl is classified ITB, did this particular model get the improved suspension like the 6 did? what i dont know is its classified weight. ive also heard talk of 120 hp 4cyl motors being a very real possibility if in IT spec. very good topic. its one of the things that really makes you go hmmmm...
Wayne Schultz
New member
Yes, All 1988's had the same suspension. The v-6 had different springs and shocks and a rear sway bar. Don't know specs of the 4 cylinder motors. I do know they made significant changes in 1987 and 1988 to the 4cyl.
As for GM corporation killing the Fiero: They are good at killing good cars. In addition to the Fiero they killed the Corvair, the Full sized Impala, and most recently Oldsmobile, a whole division of their best cars!
As for GM corporation killing the Fiero: They are good at killing good cars. In addition to the Fiero they killed the Corvair, the Full sized Impala, and most recently Oldsmobile, a whole division of their best cars!
lateapex911
Super Moderator
Well, you can only label the same car so many times with different companies names on it before the pie is sliced too thin.
And if the Olds models were the Generals best, it's no wonder the big guys market share continues to slip away.
Don't get me wrong, GM has some of the best resources on the planet, and is capable of building fine product, but management with a billion too many layers, huge issues with labor costs, both current and retirement, and too many divisions aiming at the same market kill them every time.
Not to mention this is the corporation that gave the green light to the AZTEC!!!!! Does ANYONE there have an OUNCE of common sense???? Really, how the hell did that slip out!??
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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited August 26, 2003).]
airpiraterob
New member
you mean the Pontiac ass-tech? Is that the full-on realization of their slogan "We build excitement?"
lateapex911
Super Moderator
If running to the bathroom and spewing is your idea of "exciting", then yes!
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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
I have an ’86 ITA Fiero that I ran in New England for 3 years. It finished top 10 at LRP and NHIS. My best was a fourth at WGI in 1999. I crashed the original car at LRP then built a new one, so I have lots of experience with the car. I haven’t raced it in 2 years so I don’t know if this is all still valid. Some general observations:
-Torque. I was always able to gain 2-3 positions at the start. It was fast where most other cars were slow.
-225-45-15. Not many ITA cars have that much tire.
-The mid-engine layout did well in the rain. I loved the rain.
-The brakes worked well but it did eat front pads and rotors.
-Some parts easy to find and cheap, some performance parts hard to find and expensive. (The only decent headers I have seen are like $650)
Development stopped on the new car after only 3 races when my boss made me an offer I couldn’t refuse. Now I maintain 2 Spec Miatas, tow vehicles and trailers and race for free. I love the Fiero but…
The car was very solid but needed headers, some dyno time and a LSD to be optimized. Now I don’t have the time to finish the project. Someone else is going to find out what it can do.
I have lots of parts sources that I am willing to share. My car is also for sale. See the classifieds.
-Don
-Torque. I was always able to gain 2-3 positions at the start. It was fast where most other cars were slow.
-225-45-15. Not many ITA cars have that much tire.
-The mid-engine layout did well in the rain. I loved the rain.
-The brakes worked well but it did eat front pads and rotors.
-Some parts easy to find and cheap, some performance parts hard to find and expensive. (The only decent headers I have seen are like $650)
Development stopped on the new car after only 3 races when my boss made me an offer I couldn’t refuse. Now I maintain 2 Spec Miatas, tow vehicles and trailers and race for free. I love the Fiero but…
The car was very solid but needed headers, some dyno time and a LSD to be optimized. Now I don’t have the time to finish the project. Someone else is going to find out what it can do.
I have lots of parts sources that I am willing to share. My car is also for sale. See the classifieds.
-Don
I run a '88 Fiero in ITA. I can run in the top 5 in class. There are typically 15+ cars in ITA. In the last race I finished 3rd. I was off of the track record, which was set that day, by 2.5 seconds. I'd like to think that was do to my Hoosiers seeing 18 heat cycles. In fact I qualified 3rd with cord showing on one of the rear tires. I'm still not sure a new set of Hoosiers would make up the 2.5 seconds but they wouldn't hurt.
I'd like to see what an '85 Fiero would do. They are allowed to weigh in at 2560 w/d compared to my car having to weigh in at 2780 w/d. I just don't know if the brakes would be a big enough disadvantage to negate the 220# weight difference.
The other thing to consider with the '88 or earlier years for that matter is if you run as hard as I do you'll have to rotate the rear hubs out every couple of races. You'll have to also use the AC/Delco variety since the after market hubs are crap. This adds $200 per race unless you find an alternate hub that fits. I've done the latter but I'm not sure I can say it's 100% legal. It is better than a wheel flying off and uses the same bolt pattern as stock and gives no performance advantage. In addition the '88 has another problem: the front hub is a hub/axle assembly. These have been discontinued by all reliable manufactures and after 2-3 years of racing can break. I broke three when I ran at Waterford Hills, I had neglected to cycle two of them out. The third came from an unreliable manufacture who as just started making the hubs again. This hub lasted 3 1/2 laps and I can not recommend them to anyone. I use hubs from the junk yards which do have a fair supply of 4 cylinder Fieros and since the suspension is the same I can use those hubs. It's not ideal and I'm looking for an alternative that uses new hubs because I'm not overly keen on using the bone yard parts if I can avoid it.
If I haven't completely turned you off to Fieros by the above warning and you do jump in to Fiero IT racing let me know. I think I may have the fastest ITA Fiero out there racing. I have found someone who makes good headers for the car. I also can jump start you with our suspension setup, spring rates, camber settings, etc.
Recent results:
http://www.sfrscca.org/Results/20030824/gr5.htm
http://www.sfrscca.org/Results/20030803/gr5.htm - 2 spins did me in
http://www.sfrscca.org/Results/20030803/gr5b.htm
I'd like to see what an '85 Fiero would do. They are allowed to weigh in at 2560 w/d compared to my car having to weigh in at 2780 w/d. I just don't know if the brakes would be a big enough disadvantage to negate the 220# weight difference.
The other thing to consider with the '88 or earlier years for that matter is if you run as hard as I do you'll have to rotate the rear hubs out every couple of races. You'll have to also use the AC/Delco variety since the after market hubs are crap. This adds $200 per race unless you find an alternate hub that fits. I've done the latter but I'm not sure I can say it's 100% legal. It is better than a wheel flying off and uses the same bolt pattern as stock and gives no performance advantage. In addition the '88 has another problem: the front hub is a hub/axle assembly. These have been discontinued by all reliable manufactures and after 2-3 years of racing can break. I broke three when I ran at Waterford Hills, I had neglected to cycle two of them out. The third came from an unreliable manufacture who as just started making the hubs again. This hub lasted 3 1/2 laps and I can not recommend them to anyone. I use hubs from the junk yards which do have a fair supply of 4 cylinder Fieros and since the suspension is the same I can use those hubs. It's not ideal and I'm looking for an alternative that uses new hubs because I'm not overly keen on using the bone yard parts if I can avoid it.
If I haven't completely turned you off to Fieros by the above warning and you do jump in to Fiero IT racing let me know. I think I may have the fastest ITA Fiero out there racing. I have found someone who makes good headers for the car. I also can jump start you with our suspension setup, spring rates, camber settings, etc.
Recent results:
http://www.sfrscca.org/Results/20030824/gr5.htm
http://www.sfrscca.org/Results/20030803/gr5.htm - 2 spins did me in
http://www.sfrscca.org/Results/20030803/gr5b.htm
lateapex911
Super Moderator
Itafiero- Alan, Congrats on your success. I checked out your results....if I'm reading correctly, you have a ton of Mazdas in ITA. But a lack of Hondas. Am I right? What do you see for competition, generally? Are all of those Mazdas RX-7s, or do a few RX-3s or RX-2s show up?
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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
Thanks! Ron Carroll runs an Acura Integra but your right there are a lot of RX-7s. The Acura as run pretty fast but with the new service at Sears the RX-7s were able to set new track records. We've had some Hondas run with us and some from down south and they did run fast.
http://www.sfrscca.org/Results/20020825/gr5.htm
Robert Quintero runs an RX-3 but hasn't been out yet this year. He's usually the fastest of our bunch although Bob Bradfield has been setting a new bar for us all.
http://www.sfrscca.org/Results/20020825/gr5.htm
Robert Quintero runs an RX-3 but hasn't been out yet this year. He's usually the fastest of our bunch although Bob Bradfield has been setting a new bar for us all.
lateapex911
Super Moderator
Around here, the Hondas are putting down 125 HP, weigh a couple hundreds less than an RX-7, and don't have a live rear axle banging around! Tough to beat!
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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]