PORSCHE 944
- Thread starter D Kicak
- Start date
Banzai240
New member
No, don't worry... I'm going to end my part of this right now...
George... You are right... mixed signals, I should be clearer next time... we agree on everything else...
Bill... Give us a break... None of the reclassifications that require a weight change or not have been officially approved... That requires a BoD ruling, which doesn't come for two more weeks... The CRB and BoD don't necessarily agree with "My" take on the reclassification w/ weight adjustments, so that is a battle we haven't tried to fight much yet, pending the outcome of PCAs... If PCAs happen, a fight won't be needed... If they don't, then that is the road the ITAC is going to take to get some of these changes done...
Otherwise, all of the cars that are being bickered about here are going to be taken into consideration over the next several months as part of a Global IT analysis and potential reshuffling... again pending PCA approval...
For goodness sakes... give us a chance to get the work we've already started finished before you start ripping us for work we haven't even had a chance to begin yet...
That's it... I'll leave the rest of this thread to those who feel like continuing...
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Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Renton, WA
ITS '97 240SX
You'll have to refresh my memory on this. I don't remember there being any weight changes this year. I could be wrong I guess.
Proposed reclassifications don't count.
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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
lateapex911
Super Moderator
Does that mean I can ignore the CRX??
I didn't think so...nor can Mr Kicak ignore a well prepped and driven E36 putting 217 or more down at the wheels....
Tough to ignore cars doing some whoop ass on you....
(point being that the class is defined by the leading edge.....)
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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
Banzai240
New member
No... the point being that we are trying to put tools in place to rectify a few outliers that have created a situation where the remaining cars in the sample can't possibly stack up... The point also being that it's simpler and a more prudent approach to fixing the problem to adjust those outliers to correct the problem, rather than adjust everything else around it...
You guys need to start thinking into the future a bit more, and stop dwelling on how things have been in the past... We've shown that changes are being worked on. YOu need to give us some time to put those changes in motion... We do envision that a majority of those involved in IT will feel it's a better place once some of these adjustments are in place. Give us some time to make it happen. (Also wouldn't hurt to contact your local Area Director and voice your support for the changes that have been proposed... preferrably BEFORE they get together to vote on them in two weeks... If you've already done it... do it again...
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Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Renton, WA
ITS '97 240SX
lateapex911
Super Moderator
Well Darin, in my letters to you I have stressed many times that 90% of the issues in IT lie with 10% of the cars...the "outliers" as it were. So I am well aware of the best means to resolve issues and create more parity.
So, YES.....the simple answer to Mr Kicak is that the 944 is not a car that can be expected to run at the leading adge of ITS, and therefore he needs to decide if it is a "good" car for him or not. (Forewarned is forearmed)
If he is VERY lucky, the world of ITS will evolve and change in the future, and his car might have the leading edge brought back to him, but right now, the answer remains, that the car is not a leading edge car. That's not thinking in the past, as far as any of us know, that's the way it is right now.
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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
So, YES.....the simple answer to Mr Kicak is that the 944 is not a car that can be expected to run at the leading adge of ITS, and therefore he needs to decide if it is a "good" car for him or not. (Forewarned is forearmed)
If he is VERY lucky, the world of ITS will evolve and change in the future, and his car might have the leading edge brought back to him, but right now, the answer remains, that the car is not a leading edge car. That's not thinking in the past, as far as any of us know, that's the way it is right now.
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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
Bill Miller
New member
George,
I'll have to dig and see exactly which FasTrack it was in, but the weight on the ITS VR6 Golf and Jetta were both 'corrected'. Supposedly, the GTI was done w/in the 1 year of classification window, but the Jetta had been listed at least since the '02 GCR.
/edit/ And I don't know what you mean about proposed reclassifications. Right now, I don't believe there's a reclassification request on the table for any of those cars. Besides, you're the one that said there was no legal way to correct the problem. I was simply pointing out that you were wrong.
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608
[This message has been edited by Bill Miller (edited August 17, 2004).]
Bill, that is ancient history IIRC. It didn't happen on the watch of the current ITAC so far as I recall.
I don't see where you've pointed out I was wrong. Also, you didn't mention any specific cars until this post. So, when you say "those cars" perhaps you should communicate "what cars" much better. If you're back to the VWs mentioned above, we're just going around in circles and I won't play that game.
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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
Fo far y'all have spent a lot of effort describing why SCCA didnt want to get into comp adjustments for IT. There are large differences in the regional competitiveness of various models and unless the top cars compete head to head, there are no real comparisons. And we cannot expect that problem to be resolved.
I do believe that SCCA can do a better job in classification and reorganizing the IT classes. What worked in the 1990 environment ain't working now. Every grocery getter made, even the Korean stuff, has what were exotic parts back in the early days of IT. Hopefully the proposals in front of the BOD will help that process. It does appear that things have come a long way in the past yr or so.
I do believe that SCCA can do a better job in classification and reorganizing the IT classes. What worked in the 1990 environment ain't working now. Every grocery getter made, even the Korean stuff, has what were exotic parts back in the early days of IT. Hopefully the proposals in front of the BOD will help that process. It does appear that things have come a long way in the past yr or so.
Bill Miller
New member
Wrong again George. Maybe Darin can refresh your memory on this one.
George,
You said that there was no legal recourse to correct the #/hp ratios that I quoted for those VWs. Which by the way, was a few posts back, so I had mentioned a specific group of cars. Maybe you should pay more attention. Or perhaps that's why you don't recall the weight correction on those ITS VWs either.
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608
lateapex911
Super Moderator
Hey Bill....I guess I'm slow, but how come every thread ends up being you asking Darin about some VW thing?? Isn't this about a 944?
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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
Bill Miller
New member
Jake,
I don't believe I asked Darin anything in this thread. In fact, the only reference I made to Darin, was that maybe he could help refresh George's memory.
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608
I don't believe I asked Darin anything in this thread. In fact, the only reference I made to Darin, was that maybe he could help refresh George's memory.
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608
wpspeedracer
New member
Bildon
New member
Contact Jon Milledge "Mr 944" in the USA. He's made a living off building, developing, tweaking 944 race cars for many years.
http://www.jmengines.com/
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Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport
Volkswagen Racing Equipment
## 2003 ITB NYSRRC Champs ##
http://www.jmengines.com/
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Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport
Volkswagen Racing Equipment
## 2003 ITB NYSRRC Champs ##
Tom Donnelly
New member
This thread really demonstrates the regional differences with IT. The isn't a rats ass chance in hell a 944 could win at road atlanta unless nobody else showed up. Some really good professional drivers have tried. But at CMP, it happens, even against well prepared BMW's. And it seems to happen up north all the time. My guess it has alot to do with the type of track. CMP for example is full of twists and Road Atlanta is a hp track. These are things I hope the ITAC is looking at. I personally have my doubts that even a Milledge 944S will provide much competition for the BMW's in the southeast. They will be back with the 240z's and rx7's.
Tom
Tom
Banzai240
New member
See above... I believe I've already said that this is why we have a diverse group of guys on the ITAC... Different parts of the country, different experiences...
Which again illustrates what I said previously... I think most people would agree that the BMW is an overdog in ITS... If this car were brought in line or otherwise dealt with, the 944 would be "back with the 240z's and rx7's."
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Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Renton, WA
ITS '97 240SX
[This message has been edited by Banzai240 (edited August 19, 2004).]