Originally posted by JeffYoung@Nov 10 2005, 04:35 AM
George, hope this isn't a thread hijack but I wanted to comment on 944 Cup. I ran a NASA race a few weeks back and I was shocked by the number (20+ maybe) of 944 race cars that were there. Not all were potential ITS cars, but a good chunk were.
How do we get those guys back to ITS? It seems to me that the 944 and 944s should in many ways be the quintessential ITS car, and here we are with most people taking their toys elsewhere.
What do these cars need to run up front in S? Is it just too much of a dollar investment getting power out of the motor (I've heard the quotes for Milledge motors and that scares me)? Or is it the weight?
I would hope that as part of the re-ordering of IT that is coming up, that the ITAC gives serious consideration to the 944 and to helping it out (and this is from a non-044 driver). Having all of those potential ITS cars over in NASA 944 Cup is a bad thing.
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Jeff, I truly appreciate the observation. I've had a number of discussions about the 944 with the ITAC and most of them have been rather, ah, spirited. Basically I have felt the car was clearly an ITA car. Now I think it may be able to go either way if dealt with correctly (not talking dual classification, although that might work).
I've pointed out exactly the point you're making about the popularity of 944 Cup and also Spec 944. I've pointed out that both series point to a failure for IT (I believe most spec series point to a failure for IT). As you noted with 944 Cup, there is a ready group of cars that could and quite likely would race in IT if the current classification didn't make it like bringing a knife to a gun fight.
I had a long conversation with Jon Milledge so I could supply the straight scoop on both the 944 and 944S and this has lead me to believe the 944 can be made to fit ITS reasonable well or at least well enough to give it a good try.
So, we (the ITAC) have made a recomendation to the CRB to change the weight of the car to make it more in line with the class (using the process we use for all other cars). I won't of course say what that is. I will say that I think it's a tad higher than it should be, but I'm more than happy to try it at that weight. Some folks on the ITAC feel it's going to be light and some are neutral. It will certainly be interesting to see, assuming the CRB accepts our re-ordering proposal. For sure it should get more 944s out on the track in ITS. There are certainly plenty of them around either built for ITS or easily adapted to ITS.
As for what is needed, a well built engine will certainly be a requirement to run up front, but that is as it should be. What I think will happen is some of the good cars without Milledge engines will be able to be very competitive in some places while in others people will struggle even with Milledge engines, such is regional competition. I think in general a more moderately built car will fare better than other moderately built cars simply because an all-out Milledge engine doesn't make the increases that other all-out engines make, so there would be less of a spread between the great and the good. In the end, I think the car will be a good, fun car and there are still a buttload of them out there either built or ready to be built.
To sum it up in a single sentance, I think if the CRB accepts our proposal, it should fare OK in the grand scheme of things.
I know I'm looking forward to it.
) to meet weight in ITA at 2600#; even the late cars (like my '79) need some ballast, and the early cars weighed 200-300lbs less... I agree, the 2.0L engine isn't the car's strongest point, but it may be sufficient in ITB...
most people are not willing to go the distance to really get that level of development. I know in the 944 community there is a belief that there is little to nothing that can be done for these engines, but when Jon can get 185 for an IT legal engine I know most people just aren't putting in the effort. That said, I won't have a Milledge engine. I don't know everything that Jon does, but I do know the key ingredient that makes the difference between a good and a great engine. I won't tell because I bought Jon's $100 ITS primer and I believe that information is proprietary (it's not mine to give). Since you have Milledge engines, it might be worty a conversation with Jon about this.