Pro-IT at NJMP with Grand-Am

This was my first race ever after sitting on the sidelines for over 50 years. The racing was fast and clean. I can't wait for the rest of the season.
 
vicktorvolpe said:
No. The reason being that you have the long straight at WGI to work the draft and advantage you can get in turns one, two, and the esses.

With the meotters, a good run in one and two at NJMP may get you close to making a pass into the chicane, but it's real tough to get close enough for a clean pass. Without the chicane, you have that straight (with the kink) to carry that momentum and the draft into turn four.

I'll have to learn to get more of an advantage in the chicane, that's all. I was really surprised they didn't put some tires or something at the apex of the left hand portion of the chicane...
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Hmm. Interesting.
 
Points

8 rounds so we do have a drop.

Next round is NJMP Thunderbolt without the chicane June 3. This one we pay prize money. I wonder if we will use the chicane more often...

Thanks to everyone that made rounds 1 & 2 a success.
 
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preparedcivic said:
Yes I do. Is that a good or bad thing? :eclipsee_steering:
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You gave me the bird in saturday's race. WTF?
You can argue I held you up a little bit in the last sweeping left. I didn't want to jump out in the marbles to let you by but I gave you a point by on the front straight, even lifted a little to let you go, and you still gave me the bird or an angry hand wave between 1 and 2. I stood next to my car at impound, waiting for you to come up to me and discuss why you were so upset, but you didn't.
 
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Drew M said:
You gave me the bird in saturday's race. WTF?
You can argue I held you up a little bit in the last sweeping left. I didn't want to jump out in the marbles to let you by but I gave you a point by on the front straight, even lifted a little to let you go, and you still gave me the bird or an angry hand wave between 1 and 2. I stood next to my car at impound, waiting for you to come up to me and discuss why you were so upset, but you didn't.
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PM sent, but here's a Cliff Notes for the masses:

I was not in a great mood at the end of that race. I had gotten hit twice on lap 1, once on each side by the same car/driver, including a shot while driving the straight between T5 and T6; this driver also ran into at least one other car that I saw and captured on my video. That required some steward business which was my priority in impound and frankly took all impound time and then some.

BTW, no finger was flown. What you got was a thumb pointed right between 1 and 2, meaning get out of the way (!); that was how much track from way before the bridge it took me to putt-putt past in my underpowered ITB car all the way down the front straight. There are other drivers, some in this same race that would/will hit you out of the way in this type of situation. :shrug:

If you believe an apology is warranted I'll offer it. Just take a look at my in-car (32:10 or so on the Vimeo vid) and please look at it from my perspective, especially since I thought I had a clear lane inside when I came up on you.
 
Rob,

I watched your video. I was surprised to see and hear your reaction to the slower car in T(?)12.

Focused aggression in a race car can be a good thing if channelled in the right direction.:eclipsee_steering:

Anger, on the other hand, seldom has good outcomes. You didn't have the corner position to pass, so i believe a little patience would have been appropriate. Patience, discretion, and, especially in Club Racing, gentlemanly driving, go a long way in preventing car damage.

BTW, I'm all for point-bys and try to never hold up a car that isn't in my fight.

Regards,

CC
 
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preparedcivic said:
PM sent, but here's a Cliff Notes for the masses:
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I responded to your message, but if you want to do that, here's my point of view...

I've never been to that track and was having a difficult time learning it. I gave plenty of point-by's to everyone that came up on me, but remember, I paid the same entry fee as everyone else and I'm just as entitled to run my race as everyone else. It's the overtaking driver's responsibility to make a safe pass. It's not my responsibility to jump out of the way.
 
Rob I got to meet you for the second time on Saturday night and enjoyed hanging out for a while with you. I want to be honest and not offend you but I think that the ITS car mentioned above that you wanted to pass did nothing wrong at all and was actually very kind to you. Having raced in ITB for 11 years and done pretty darn well I have been able to race with a lot of slower ITS cars. He gave you a point by AND he slowed down on the straight to allow you to pass. BIG props to him for doing so. Ya he slowed you up a bit in the turn but what do you expect? What else could he have done? I know, I know... when I was in ITB I said it all the time... use your damn right foot! But with tires going away and possibly an ill handling car you can't expect him to be as fast in the corners as you. And honestly you can't expect him to be as fast as you in the corners anyway, Realistically the fastest ITS cars are not that much faster. With the extra tire width comes extra weight. I do agree that you were definetly faster through the turn and coming off of it but I see nothing at all that he did wrong and I think he did everything right and deserves a HUGE thumbs up for what he did for you.

I also don't see how both the contacts were not partially your fault. the first one I assume is from the BMW in front of you coming out of the chicane. To me it looked like you were in his blind spot and you both moved into eachother a bit. probably could have been avoided on your part since he most likely didn't know you were that close. The second incident I just don't get at all. No way would I EVER have left that door open for Tim (black VW) to get inside you and pass. It is easy to say that after but I still think I would have read that situation differently and seen that white/red BMW going way slower and I would have stuck behind the BMW from the first contact. I would have probably made that decision not just because he was going so much slower already but also just knowing that once we hit that straight the BMW would be long gone anyway (until the next turn which is what I used to get frustrated with). I probably would have laid back and protected my position. I really don't think tim could have passed if you laid back and if he really tried on the outside he would have gotten boxed out like you did. I know in the sandbox you said contact with same car twice but I think this was a different BMW and it was the right front. If I am wrong on the contacts feel free to correct me and point out what I am missing. In fairness I was not the one driving and may not be seeing the whole picture.

I really hope your not offended but I wanted to be honest with you since we will be racing together for years to come.

Stephen

PS: Trust me I am well aware I was in the way Friday and Saturday trying to get the damn car to run and then Sunday I am sure I was in the way as I finally got a chance to run a properly running RWD car for the first time ever :) This is club racing and we all need to remember that. A lot of us are learning and/or just doing this for fun. Always remember that some of us will never be fast...
 
Drew M said:
I responded to your message, but if you want to do that, here's my point of view...

I've never been to that track and was having a difficult time learning it. I gave plenty of point-by's to everyone that came up on me, but remember, I paid the same entry fee as everyone else and I'm just as entitled to run my race as everyone else. It's the overtaking driver's responsibility to make a safe pass. It's not my responsibility to jump out of the way.
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TOTALLY TRUE! I know I just said this but I really do think you deserve a BIG THUMBS UP for what you did.

I got frustrated in my ITB car when I was following an ITS or ITR car that was slower in the turns but blew me away on the straights. Lap after lap it got to me. this was WAY different then that.

To ANY ITR or ITS car that reads this take the time to back off on the straight and LEARN from the faster car even if they are way slower on the straight. I did this Saturday AM following a planet miata car. just checking out his line and what he did. Then spent some time following a flatout miata. I was literaly coasting on the straights just waiting to learn through the next set of turns...

Stephen
 
cchandler said:
You didn't have the corner position to pass, so i believe a little patience would have been appropriate. Patience, discretion, and, especially in Club Racing, gentlemanly driving, go a long way in preventing car damage.

BTW, I'm all for point-bys and try to never hold up a car that isn't in my fight.

Regards,

CC
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+1
 
here's my take on it.
You're both wrong, and you're both right. ;)

I've been in both shoes. My first qualifying session ever was awwwwwful. I was like 8 seconds off the pace of the big dogs. Mostly because i was always looking in the mirror and jumping out of peoples way. One guy came up to me and said "Thanks" after. But he allowed he thought I went too far and could have held ground for one more corner.

On the other hand I've been in heated battles with second place all over my ass, and had no time for guys who didn't figure out a way to let the leaders thru.

This situation is exacerbated by the mismatch in classes. The ITB car has a bitch of a time getting by on the straight, he HAS to have help. But the ITS car was having trouble in the corners, where the ITB car makes all of it's time.
Reviewing the video, you can see how much time was lost by the position of the class cars right in front of the ITB car going into the octopus, then how far gone they were when the pass was finally made.

Does the ITS car have the right to the track? yes. If it were me, knowing my pace, though, I think I would have given a point and stayed left out of the way, right then in the octopus, and then fall in behind and try to follow an obviously faster car. Better for him, AND me. Watching the mirror for cars closing on you is key. (when I race with faster classes, like, say, at the ARRC, or these ProIT races, I do some calculations going in, and know about when I'm going to see the leaders in the mirror. I can then manage my pace so they catch me in a place that is best for both of us)

If I were the guy held up, I think (I hope) I would have tried to remain calmer and not show my frustration as obviously. Gotta manage the aggression. Damage is done at that point, better to have a chat about it over a beer later and get both perspectives, IMO.

But both drivers are busy dealing with their own car, their own handling issues, their own talents and it's tough to spare the mental time to get out of their own head and try and get in somebody elses. Red mist, concentration, whatever, it's tough to manage.

I can certainly see both views and how each guy is frustrated.
 
RSTPerformance said:
I thought it was a great weekend! The "pro" guys were very helpful and seemed to mingle well with a lot of the IT guys including us! Best of all we got the RX-8 running well and in our "first" real session ever with the car (Sunday's race) without issues Stephen was able to get within 2 seconds of the leaders on very old used tires and no suspension setup dialed in (no sessions with real data). I will let Stephen say more but I think this car has some potential!

It was great meeting some new people even though we didn't have much hanging out time!

Raymond
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I do think the RX8 has potential to run with the best after this weekend! I think it is fair to say that the Autotechnic BMW's are amoungst the best prepaired and driven cars in ITR in the country. I haven't been elsewhere in the country but I am told they are amoungst the fastest! I am guessing that Irish Mike has a fast ITR car as well since he always prepares excellent cars. with that being said I wasn't that far off on Sunday considering it was really my first time driving a properly running RWD car! And it was with ZERO suspension changes/testing along with old tires given to me from Mr Ulfelder himself after he said they sucked :) I didn't ever plan on ever using them and actually left them outside all winter in the snow. With all that being said I only got Sundays race to actually drive the car without issues from the second lap out. In fact most sessions I only ran a few laps and pulled off as I was a hazard to others. During that 1 session I was just over 2 seconds slower than the fastest guys and only a second and a 1/2 off of running with the front pack including about a second off of Irish Mikes car! I am VERY pleased with the potential as I learn a bit more about RWD and driving a damn 6 speed... which screwed me up every other damn lap! (That I hope will be a quick learning curve)

Overall the weekend was a success but started off terrible from the first session. constant fuel issues plauged the damn car and have since day one last year. I was beyond frustrated and decided to take my wife and daughter and set out in search of some knowledge from some pro teams. I shortly ran into Sylvain Tremblay in his garage next to his flat black #70! Having never met him I recognized him from TV and said what the hell lets ask him! My wife thought I was nuts and didn't want me walking in the garage but we quickly learned how nice he was. He talked to me for 20 minutes about what could be wrong and what to try. He then got down on his knees and started talking to my 18 month old for another 3 or 4 minutes! Later that day he saw my wife and left his "crew" to run (yes run) over to her and ask her how we were doing. Tim Mullan also reached out to a speedsource crew member and later that day multiple Speedsource guys came over and started running tests to figure it all out. They offered to get parts from all over for us to figure it out, and started calling people back at the training facility! Just awesome people. In the End it was actually Jerry Rigoli that came to the rescue with a damn Miata fuel pump! We rigged up a well inside the tank with a fuel pump zip tied in 4 directions to hold it steady. took a hacksaw to the stock pump assembly to get the regulator out. Then went to the vendors and picked up a 3/8 TEE to make a fuel line out with the regulator attached. And Guess what it works perfectly! Those damn japs WAY over engineered that set-up... if only they knew what IT racers can come up with :)

In the end I got to meet a ton of people from speedsource who were so helpfull and many others that I have only seen on TV but even more exciting was that I got to meet the infamous "K" for the first time!!!

After Saturday I didn't think I would say it but After Sundays Race I can honestly say I had a great weekend!

Stephen
 
It wasn't a BMW; it was another ITB car, and not Tim either. The initial contact was when I was going up the hill on the straight chute between 5 and 6, dead staight and in the middle of the track. Not sure what I could have done there.

The second doink was at the exit of 10, and this one probably was more of a plain old racing incident. The red and white BMW was on the outside, and as I got close jigged about 6" to a foot inside, and I had to zig that same distance to keep my RF off his LR quarter, which if I hadn't might have made for some carnage in the pack. The same ITB car from the earlier contact was now making a run on my left. I had checked my mirror mid turn and no one was there, but obviously this someone now was.....this same ITB car also had side to side a few laps later with a SM between 6 and 7, well after traffic sorted out.

It's too bad all these discussions didn't happen at the track, maybe over competitive beer pong or something. :rolleyes:

And I give you guys a lot of credit for sticking with that RX-8. Definitely the prettiest car out there, and now properly fueled, reasonably speedy too.

StephenB said:
Rob I got to meet you for the second time on Saturday night and enjoyed hanging out for a while with you. I want to be honest and not offend you but I think that the ITS car mentioned above that you wanted to pass did nothing wrong at all and was actually very kind to you. Having raced in ITB for 11 years and done pretty darn well I have been able to race with a lot of slower ITS cars. He gave you a point by AND he slowed down on the straight to allow you to pass. BIG props to him for doing so. Ya he slowed you up a bit in the turn but what do you expect? What else could he have done? I know, I know... when I was in ITB I said it all the time... use your damn right foot! But with tires going away and possibly an ill handling car you can't expect him to be as fast in the corners as you. And honestly you can't expect him to be as fast as you in the corners anyway, Realistically the fastest ITS cars are not that much faster. With the extra tire width comes extra weight. I do agree that you were definetly faster through the turn and coming off of it but I see nothing at all that he did wrong and I think he did everything right and deserves a HUGE thumbs up for what he did for you.

I also don't see how both the contacts were not partially your fault. the first one I assume is from the BMW in front of you coming out of the chicane. To me it looked like you were in his blind spot and you both moved into eachother a bit. probably could have been avoided on your part since he most likely didn't know you were that close. The second incident I just don't get at all. No way would I EVER have left that door open for Tim (black VW) to get inside you and pass. It is easy to say that after but I still think I would have read that situation differently and seen that white/red BMW going way slower and I would have stuck behind the BMW from the first contact. I would have probably made that decision not just because he was going so much slower already but also just knowing that once we hit that straight the BMW would be long gone anyway (until the next turn which is what I used to get frustrated with). I probably would have laid back and protected my position. I really don't think tim could have passed if you laid back and if he really tried on the outside he would have gotten boxed out like you did. I know in the sandbox you said contact with same car twice but I think this was a different BMW and it was the right front. If I am wrong on the contacts feel free to correct me and point out what I am missing. In fairness I was not the one driving and may not be seeing the whole picture.

I really hope your not offended but I wanted to be honest with you since we will be racing together for years to come.

Stephen

PS: Trust me I am well aware I was in the way Friday and Saturday trying to get the damn car to run and then Sunday I am sure I was in the way as I finally got a chance to run a properly running RWD car for the first time ever :) This is club racing and we all need to remember that. A lot of us are learning and/or just doing this for fun. Always remember that some of us will never be fast...
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