Originally posted by Joe Harlan@Dec 13 2005, 05:07 PM I am not sure if you missed this, It did not come from Matt....Read the message and don't alway discredit the messanger. You have seen me take Matt apart before. I always check stuff out for myself.
Joe, I have seen this and refer to Ben DeWitt's comment before. It is the same comment that I REPEATEDLY refer to as heresay coming through an unknown source. I have yet to have anyone answer who Ben is, how he relates to the issue and how he comes to know what the track manager says. IF that is truly how the track manager feels than obviously that's a bad situation. I haven't been trelying on what Matt does or doesn't say and have been chasing information down which is why I'm concerned I haven't found any corroboration that Ed was bidding on the job. That's the point!
It would appear that we are the only two people still debating this so I guess we should either let it go or continue in with a PM.
Originally posted by Matt Rowe@Dec 13 2005, 05:40 PM ... I have yet to have anyone answer who Ben is, how he relates to the issue and how he comes to know what the track manager says
I was out of town yesterday on business or I would have answered a little quicker. Sorry.
Ben is a racer, and one of the very few, who actually lives in Pueblo (well, Pueblo West), retired, and an exceptionally nice guy. Although I don't know, it wouldn't surprise me to find that he knows the track manager (it's not that big a town), and that they've chatted about things. I do know that it is unlikely that he would say something, in person or via post, that he does not know to be true wthout a 'rumor has it that...' preface.
Originally posted by x-ring@Dec 14 2005, 09:23 AM Ben is a racer, and one of the very few, who actually lives in Pueblo (well, Pueblo West), retired, and an exceptionally nice guy. Although I don't know, it wouldn't surprise me to find that he knows the track manager (it's not that big a town), and that they've chatted about things. I do know that it is unlikely that he would say something, in person or via post, that he does not know to be true wthout a 'rumor has it that...' preface.
Thanks for the info. I would still be nice to have confirmation from an "official" source, like the RE, but the background goes a long way towards credibility. At least Ben is a local to the area rather then some guy a few thousand miles away in orange juice country. (relax Matt that was a joke )
Originally posted by Matt Rowe@Dec 14 2005, 08:29 AM Ty,
Thanks for the info. I would still be nice to have confirmation from an "official" source, like the RE, but the background goes a long way towards credibility. At least Ben is a local to the area rather then some guy a few thousand miles away in orange juice country. (relax Matt that was a joke )
Your kidding right? There is no way your gonna get anyone in office to come out and say what's happening. They don't want to loose their positions. You need to quit deflecting the subject back at Matt, It is clear that there are people giving you the information you asked for. What is being forgotten here is a region is loosing a revenue generating facility. Second there is another group ready to step up and put on races in their place. Sooner or later the group that thinks SCCA still carrys a big stick will be sitting on a room with walking canes beating each other for looking the other way...It is crazy to think that power doesn't corrupt.
I gave up on Ed Ozment. I found a guy in the yellow pages here who is fixing my bathroom. He says he'd be more than willing to inspect tracks for SCCA. Same rate. $20 an hour. His english isn't great but he's a wiz with a caulk gun and his tile work is to die for. There's a little problem with his work status here in the US but do you think that would be a problem we couldn't get around? Maybe a phone call to the right person in Topeka?
I know that this has drifted off in another direction, but if you're interested it appears that the Colorado Motorsports Council (CMC) has approved $30K to help PMI out with the cost of the repairs, and that Ed Ozment has stated that major expense (the three row armco) can be done over a period of time.
Originally posted by x-ring@Dec 14 2005, 12:27 PM I know that this has drifted off in another direction, but if you're interested it appears that the Colorado Motorsports Council (CMC) has approved $30K to help PMI out with the cost of the repairs, and that Ed Ozment has stated that major expense (the three row armco) can be done over a period of time.
Thanks Ty, I am sure the position softened once the deal was outed publicly. In my way of thinking this is an issue that should never have a chanceof happening. If you work for a radio station giving away a toaster everybody in your family all the way the unborn cousin is excluded from participating. This is a place where we should hove gone outside the club for inspectors,
How do you go outside of the club for inspectors when there is no external certification process for track inspectors? There is no track inspectors guild, union, society or organization to say this person is or isn't qualified. So how would we determine who is qualified? Chances are that one way would be to look at people experienced in race track construction. Makes sense, they are familiar with good practices and experience with practical solutions. But it also happens that with such a small group of people they are likely to be the ones to bid the job. So now you have the same conflict only the SCCA has LESS control over the quality and integrity of the inspectors. After all we can't pull a inspectors qualifications if we don't issue them.
In all seriousness the griping about a conflict of interest is pointless. The perception of conflict isn't the problem, it's the how the track management felt about the conduct of the track inspector. That could have easily happened if he was an SCCA member or some random person from Track Inspectors Local 666 who also wants to get the contract. And who incidently also identified many of the same issues that had been noted since 1993 and not yet addressed. The real story is how the situation is investigated and dealt with by our national tech staff to insure that this public debate does not have to happen again.
Originally posted by Matt Rowe@Dec 14 2005, 03:14 PM How do you go outside of the club for inspectors when there is no external certification process for track inspectors? There is no track inspectors guild, union, society or organization to say this person is or isn't qualified. So how would we determine who is qualified? Chances are that one way would be to look at people experienced in race track construction. Makes sense, they are familiar with good practices and experience with practical solutions. But it also happens that with such a small group of people they are likely to be the ones to bid the job. So now you have the same conflict only the SCCA has LESS control over the quality and integrity of the inspectors. After all we can't pull a inspectors qualifications if we don't issue them.
In all seriousness the griping about a conflict of interest is pointless. The perception of conflict isn't the problem, it's the how the track management felt about the conduct of the track inspector. That could have easily happened if he was an SCCA member or some random person from Track Inspectors Local 666 who also wants to get the contract. And who incidently also identified many of the same issues that had been noted since 1993 and not yet addressed. The real story is how the situation is investigated and dealt with by our national tech staff to insure that this public debate does not have to happen again.
I'll bet there are people qualified to do the job outside of this club. Second you sure as hell do not use the spouse of an SCCA employee,Period Matt. What job are you shooting for in the club. The position you take on alot of issues makes me feel you are looking for a BOD/CRB shot in the future.
When you take a job as an employee of the club that should exclude you fom doing private business that relates to club racing. I did not do a report on Big Eds handyman service but one has to wonder in Mrs Ozment is an officer of that business? My wife is the vice president of my company. The point is that there had to be someone else that could have done the job that would not have used his/her position to push for financial gain for their own company.
Originally posted by Joe Harlan@Dec 14 2005, 05:39 PM I'll bet there are people qualified to do the job outside of this club. Second you sure as hell do not use the spouse of an SCCA employee,Period Matt. What job are you shooting for in the club. The position you take on alot of issues makes me feel you are looking for a BOD/CRB shot in the future.
When you take a job as an employee of the club that should exclude you fom doing private business that relates to club racing. I did not do a report on Big Eds handyman service but one has to wonder in Mrs Ozment is an officer of that business? My wife is the vice president of my company. The point is that there had to be someone else that could have done the job that would not have used his/her position to push for financial gain for their own company.
I'll bet there are people qualified but how do you determine who is qualified? SCCA certifies that they meet our standards as a track inspector, right? At that point they are an agent of the club. But by your logic we would have to exclude anyone with actual experience in track construction. Secondly, what you have apparently not understood despite NUMEROUS statements, the decision to use Ed for the inspection is not affected or influenced by his wife. Two different departments. The only thing club racing has to do with it is they are informed not to issue sanctions for the track and that occurs AFTER the inspection. Prior to that they aren't even involved in the process. So to drag Terry into this is flat out wrong.
Nice try about calling my motives into play but I'm not biting. I have told you before I already have enough on my plate, the last thing I am interested in is a BOD/CRB position. Furthermore if you knew my stance on a wide range of club topics you would realize I am far from likely to fit the traditional BOD/CRB role.
Originally posted by Matt Rowe@Dec 15 2005, 03:02 AM Secondly, what you have apparently not understood despite NUMEROUS statements, the decision to use Ed for the inspection is not affected or influenced by his wife. Two different departments. The only thing club racing has to do with it is they are informed not to issue sanctions for the track and that occurs AFTER the inspection. Prior to that they aren't even involved in the process. So to drag Terry into this is flat out wrong.
You know that for a fact? I was told the week she got hired that this would happen. You know why? It happened before. You are either naive beyond belief or just in total denial.
Originally posted by Matt Rowe@Dec 14 2005, 08:02 PM I'll bet there are people qualified but how do you determine who is qualified? SCCA certifies that they meet our standards as a track inspector, right? At that point they are an agent of the club. But by your logic we would have to exclude anyone with actual experience in track construction. Secondly, what you have apparently not understood despite NUMEROUS statements, the decision to use Ed for the inspection is not affected or influenced by his wife. Two different departments. The only thing club racing has to do with it is they are informed not to issue sanctions for the track and that occurs AFTER the inspection. Prior to that they aren't even involved in the process. So to drag Terry into this is flat out wrong.
Nice try about calling my motives into play but I'm not biting. I have told you before I already have enough on my plate, the last thing I am interested in is a BOD/CRB position. Furthermore if you knew my stance on a wide range of club topics you would realize I am far from likely to fit the traditional BOD/CRB role.
They do? Then get me a copy of the ceritfication and its qualifications. cause now you want to talk about lawyers. What happens when the reapris are made a nd an agent of our club recommends somethign that gets someone killed who is the insured? Second I could care less if it's a different dept. What is her title. Director of club racing? Is the Tech dept not under club racing? Next I could llive with almost all of that but then we have a statement that he pressured the track mananger into his company doing the repairs. Come on Matt even you can't be on the koolaide that deep dude. If there is a certified track inspection process then there has to be other inspectors that could be used as long as Mrs Ozment is an employee of the club.
And you still over look the timing of the whole dam deal.....
I am fine with Ben's information here. 
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