rules regarding power steering & cruise control

George, you're mistaken about Unorthodox.

Unless they've changed their offerings recently, all they have for the SR20DE is a "system" revolving around a reduced-diameter crankshaft pulley. I bought the whole shebang looking for oversize pulleys for the water pump, alternator, and power steering pump, but I found that while the crank pulley was, in fact, undersized the other pulleys were stock size (but available in nice birght shiny anodized aluminum). Since we cannot change the diameter of the crankshaft pulley, I ended up returning it to them.

You buy a "lightened" aluminum P/S pulley from them, but according to the technician I spoke to they were stock sized pulleys.

They offered to fabricate pulleys to my specifications, but the price was way high and they required a minimum quantity purchase. This is why we use the Stanza water pump pulley.

If Nissport wants to fab and sell them, I'll design them...
 
Greg,

There is a guy down here in the southeast who makes billet aluminum pulleys for a reasonable price. I have one on my z-car. He made the pulleys for Eddie Radatz who maintains Grayson Upchurch's cars. If you want a contact email me at [email protected].

This guy does great work, I have pics.

Tom
 
While I am not sure I agree with this statement, I would like your opinion Kirk:

What is the difference between a line that cools and a cooler? Functionally, the same thing, right?
 
If that premise moves forward from the assumption that they are the "same" in that they share some diagnostic characteristics or attributes - both flow oil and both dissipate heat energy - the point might hold. The proposition is that they are the "same" until someone provides a compelling case that they both don't have those two attributes.

That is not a tenable argument however, if the question advances from the assumption that they are "different until proven the same." The burden is then to prove that a "cooler" is a "line" in that they both have ALL of the critical attributes that define either one individually.

I suggest that they are operationally different as the terms "line" and "cooler" are commonly used in the auto industry.

Try this - go into 100 auto parts places and ask to see every PS "line" that they have in stock or on the books. My guess is that none of them will have the attributes NOT shared by "lines" and "coolers" but that instead are unique to "coolers" - all-metal construction, fins to increase surface area, and bends to maximize linear flow relative to the space they take up - all attributes intended to maximize cooling capacity.

I'm not picking on Jeff here, either: We racers do this kind of thing all the time, knowing full well that we are playing word games to our own ends. Some of the goofy stuff we have in the current IT rules are a result of this process...

K
 
Originally posted by grega:
George, you're mistaken about Unorthodox.

Unless they've changed their offerings recently, all they have for the SR20DE is a "system" revolving around a reduced-diameter crankshaft pulley. I bought the whole shebang looking for oversize pulleys for the water pump, alternator, and power steering pump, but I found that while the crank pulley was, in fact, undersized the other pulleys were stock size (but available in nice birght shiny anodized aluminum). Since we cannot change the diameter of the crankshaft pulley, I ended up returning it to them.

You buy a "lightened" aluminum P/S pulley from them, but according to the technician I spoke to they were stock sized pulleys.

They offered to fabricate pulleys to my specifications, but the price was way high and they required a minimum quantity purchase. This is why we use the Stanza water pump pulley.

If Nissport wants to fab and sell them, I'll design them...
Click to expand...

I know that the UR WP pulleys I have are oversized, despite whatever you may think. I've compared them with the half dozen stock ones I have.

I admit I don't have a UR PS pulley in my mitts. I'll defer to you, but I was pretty certain someone told me they were indeed larger.

As for NISsport making them, we could perhaps do that. Let's talk.


------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
 
The Crank pulley diameter has to stay as stock, but does the belt have to ride on the periphery of the pulley?
If the belt were to be further down inside the pulley, it's effective ratio would be reduced, slowing the accessories.

Food for thought.
 
Good job smokey!

Run a thinner v-belt, or a crankshaft pulley that is the same DIAMETER and material of the pulley but has a wider groove for the belt to ride in.

The rulebook doesn't specify how far below the outermost diameter of the pulley the belt must ride...or better yet just get a rotary and then you can run any "crankshaft" pulley you wish.

Thinking out loud....Am I missing something in the book, where does it say you can change belt sizes?
 
I have been searching for a good answer to the cruise control question and I have not been able to find anything in the GCR/ITCS about being able to remove the system. I do remember reading something about being able to remove it relating to driver controls but still can't find anything. I hope that I am just missing it, but just for safety reasons, I don't want anything else attached to the throttle than the pedal that I am in control of. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Russell
 
Actually, on many Ford products, the P/S cooler is just a long line that runs in front of the radiator, so the "fin/no fin" argument, or snaking back and forth real close together arguments don't hold much water.

As to the cruise control, I am hard pressed to imagine that a car (maybe short of the bimmer) comes "standard" with cruise control. IIRC, it is a convenience option on most cars in IT, meaning that the car was available without the cruise. Simple solution is to then update/backdate on the spec line to a car without the cruise. Maybe that has changed with some of the very new cars being allowed in, but most cars of the 80's and mid-90's I'd say it's a pretty safe assumption.

If however, your car was not available w/o cruise, well, too bad! Mine wasn't available with horsepower!
smile.gif


------------------
-Marcello Canitano
www.SilverHorseRacing.com
 
The only evidence I have been able to find about if the car came with cruise control standard or as an option is on an enthusiast website with pictures of window stickers. One of them doesn't list cruise control as a standard option. Would you guys consider that enough evidence for the update/backdate rule as long it's within the year range listed on a single line of the ITCS car classification.
Russell
 
'91-96 Ford Escort GT had both the cruise and the PS as standard equipment. I think that many of the marginal ITS cars(that really should be in ITA) will have similar packages. If it were a Hword issue, do you think that the rules would have been changed by now? Just another example of how the IT rules have not kept up with the technology of the cars now made and sold in US.
 
Originally posted by grega:
It would be nice if we allowed verbiage similar to the Spec Miata rules: "Power steering racks may be converted to manual by removing all power steering components."
Click to expand...


Since there seems to be some kind of a trend about making sense out of the IT rules, maybe this would be a good time for a letter about this.


------------------
Ony Anglade
ITA Miata
Sugar Hill, GA
 
I've sent to many letters to the Comp Board over the last few years that I'm going dizzy, but I do believe I sent an email about 6-8 weeks ago saying just that. If our residing ITAC members could confirm/deny I'll be glad to send another one.

Greg
 
Originally posted by GT240sx:
The only evidence I have been able to find about if the car came with cruise control standard or as an option is on an enthusiast website with pictures of window stickers. One of them doesn't list cruise control as a standard option. Would you guys consider that enough evidence for the update/backdate rule as long it's within the year range listed on a single line of the ITCS car classification.
Russell
Click to expand...

I don't know about the car in question, but most factory shop manuals I've ever seen will have multiple breakdown / assembly sections based on different option packages. Again, YMMV... As to the window sticker, I don't think that is of the accepted sources of information for a protest defense, so I'd go dig deeper than that, if I was even worried about it.

------------------
-Marcello Canitano
www.SilverHorseRacing.com
 
Hi,

Just as a side note on this one, the discussion regarding making the belt fall off is not a valid one under any circumstances.

The rules require that you FINISH the race with the car meeting all of the rules. Technically speaking, if the belt isn't there, for any reason, at the end of the race, you're in violation of the rules. It really doesn't matter if you made it fall off or not. The same thing applies to bodywork, mufflers, and all of those other parts that seem to just fall off of cars during the course of the race. You're supposed to show up at impound with all of the parts attached.

They don't weigh your car in at the beginning of the race, do they?

Cheers,

Chris Camadella
ITS Porsche 944S
 
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