Stay in A or move to B?
- Thread starter titanium
- Start date
Bill Miller
New member
Andy,
Just look at SRX7 in the DC Region, I think those guys have to run 13x6 wheels. Besides, most of the ITB guys run 205's anyway.
------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608
Just look at SRX7 in the DC Region, I think those guys have to run 13x6 wheels. Besides, most of the ITB guys run 205's anyway.
------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608
lateapex911
Super Moderator
True, those tires will work. BUT,they will screw the set up as the side wall height is higher, so there is a disadvantage there as well, in addition to the loss of contact patch.
And, the gearing gets hit, which, in a wind up toy like an RX-7 can be painful. That is solvable by going to the higher gear set, (most guys can still go to a 5.12), but it is an additional cost of $500 or so.
All of this is OK, and manageable, but if it's not accounted for in the first place, the goal could be missed.
------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
215/50?
Jake, actually I hope your point is taken -and I think it is. It boils down to this: "when a car goes from A to B, it will not have the same performance potential as it had in A because it has lost an inch in wheel width" In one way or another this will be true about any car that goes from ITA to ITB and needs to be taken into account when reclassifying cars.
Jake, actually I hope your point is taken -and I think it is. It boils down to this: "when a car goes from A to B, it will not have the same performance potential as it had in A because it has lost an inch in wheel width" In one way or another this will be true about any car that goes from ITA to ITB and needs to be taken into account when reclassifying cars.
Bill Miller
New member
Andy,
You seemed to imply that if the RX7 folks had to go to 6" wheels, they'd have to run 185/60/13 tires. I was pointing out that the SRX7 guys run 13x6 (I think), and Kumhos, and regularly run w/ the top ITB folks. Also, the ITB folks run 6" wheels, and most run a 205mm wide tire, at a minimum. Point was, no requirement to run a 185/60/13.
------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608
You seemed to imply that if the RX7 folks had to go to 6" wheels, they'd have to run 185/60/13 tires. I was pointing out that the SRX7 guys run 13x6 (I think), and Kumhos, and regularly run w/ the top ITB folks. Also, the ITB folks run 6" wheels, and most run a 205mm wide tire, at a minimum. Point was, no requirement to run a 185/60/13.
------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608
Spec Rx can run 13" up to 7" wide; Sopac additionally apecs 4" backspace. Tires spec'd at 205/60-13.
------------------
Steve
[email protected]
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/jake7140" TARGET=_blank>My racing page
</A><A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/elrss" TARGET=_blank>Elkhart Lake Racing_&_Sipping Society
</A>
------------------
Steve
[email protected]
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/jake7140" TARGET=_blank>My racing page
</A><A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/elrss" TARGET=_blank>Elkhart Lake Racing_&_Sipping Society
</A>
G
Guest
Guest
toyo recommends 7" rims for its 205's and they a narrower tread than hoosier so im sure hoosier would say nay. SCCA has to make rules like this "with" the safe recommendation from the MFG'ers.
Banzai240
New member
Funny... then WHY would Hoosier measure all their dimensions for the 205/60R13 R3S03 on a 6" rim???
Reference:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.jsp?mak...ier&model=R3S03
They fit guys... That's the size I used to run on the 510 in ITC... And on my 610 street-car... and... and...
DISCLAIMER: this post has nothing to do with whether or not the RX-7 is getting moved to ITB... AT this point, it's only one of many topics of discussion.
------------------
Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Renton, WA
ITS '97 240SX
dickita15
New member
The question of if a specific car gets moved is less the point than disbursment of cars in the total classes. some classes draw more cars. in Naarc (that is a 13 race northeast series)paticipation measured by number of different drivers who raced was
ITS 61
ITA 75
ITB 48
ITC 19
if we are looking to make 4 fair classes then it looks like you push slow cars down in the 3 faster classes. if we want 5 fair classes then cutting A and S into three classes would seem to work. it would seem with so few C cars we could do it with 4 but 5 would work and not p%$# off the B and C drivers
dick
ITS 61
ITA 75
ITB 48
ITC 19
if we are looking to make 4 fair classes then it looks like you push slow cars down in the 3 faster classes. if we want 5 fair classes then cutting A and S into three classes would seem to work. it would seem with so few C cars we could do it with 4 but 5 would work and not p%$# off the B and C drivers
dick
Darin - yeah I noticed that too. Funny how Hoosier measures tires on rims that it doesn't recommend for that size tire. The reason is that the "measured rim" data is from a rim that is speced by the tire industry for a certain width tire (as marked on sidewall). However, since Hoosiers are usually wider than they are marked, and I'm sure they have a good legal team, they often don't recommend their tires on a wheel as narrow as the tire industry specs.
Dick - good info. In the northeast we have the same type of distribution. Basically if a few ITS cars drop into ITA, a bunch of ITA cars drop into ITB, and several ITB cars drop into ITC - we're back in business.
There's no question that a class beween S +A would work too for many if the Miata, CRX, Integra, 240Z, were to move up out of A and a bunch of the 2liter cars for S would move down into the new class. But I think in the end, you would find that the new ITA times would be right on top of the existing ITB times - so there would be little reason to have 2 classes for cars at approximately the same performance. I think it would be better for IT to just have a larger fields of ITB than to add another class.
[This message has been edited by Jake (edited March 07, 2004).]
Dick - good info. In the northeast we have the same type of distribution. Basically if a few ITS cars drop into ITA, a bunch of ITA cars drop into ITB, and several ITB cars drop into ITC - we're back in business.
There's no question that a class beween S +A would work too for many if the Miata, CRX, Integra, 240Z, were to move up out of A and a bunch of the 2liter cars for S would move down into the new class. But I think in the end, you would find that the new ITA times would be right on top of the existing ITB times - so there would be little reason to have 2 classes for cars at approximately the same performance. I think it would be better for IT to just have a larger fields of ITB than to add another class.
[This message has been edited by Jake (edited March 07, 2004).]
That makes perfectly good sense until the political realities intervene: The only answer that will get passed is one that doesn't PO any stakeholder group and a complete restructuring will be cause a lot of shrieking among the frontrunners in A, B, and C. It'll never fly.
My IT2 proposal was specifically intended to get around this issue by upsetting only the frontrunners in A. In hindsight, I over-reached and should have simply asked for a new class for the S orphans and unlisted cars that were perceived as too quick for A but I had to go and try to actually change something by injecting a "standards-based" specification process...
K
RSTPerformance
New member
I know of a couple cars running 225 Hoosiers on 14 X 6 wheels... they fit fine. The 205 is the "normal" size I think.
Raymond Blethen
Raymond Blethen
Bill Miller
New member
Sorry Andy, my bad. It was actually Daryl (7's Racing) that made the comment about the 185/60/13 tires. It was right after one of your posts, and I must have looked at your sig right above it.
Sorry for attributing that comment to you.
------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608
Sorry for attributing that comment to you.
------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608
G
Guest
Guest
Even if 205's fit, I wouldnt go back to even 205's, for one thing hoosier dosnt make a 205x13 and the toyos are like driving on grease as soon as there warm. if your right about 225's fitting safely on a 6" rim I would consider a drop to ITB. Then there the added weight issue to compound the tire problem, add 100 pounds and switch to 205's?, no. if no new class is prefered by the majority and restructuring the existing classes is the way it goes, push all ITB cars back to the non-existent ITC class, put all ITA except the class killers in ITB, and start dropping neons and eclipes into ITA with the hondas.
Kirk, on the contrary – you didn’t overreach, you didn’t go far enough. The proposal on the table cures much more than the ITS/ITA gap. And I don’t think the shrieking is going to as bad as you think - as you well know, your poster-child for IT2, the 94 Civic EX is already trickling down to ITA. And a certain ITA to B drop is even getting you back into racing. Yes, your Golf is the kind of reclassing that we are talking about, so don't write it off yet. Proposals for other cars dropping classes are starting to be taken very seriously. Your picture of IT2 is basically how I see ITA in years to come.
As for the stakeholders, PCA trickle-down has many more stakeholders than the IT2 initiative. Think about it: IT2 appeals mostly to people who haven’t built cars yet – thus haven’t invested a cent. Moving existing cars down the class structure appeals to MANY people actively racing.
As for the stakeholders, PCA trickle-down has many more stakeholders than the IT2 initiative. Think about it: IT2 appeals mostly to people who haven’t built cars yet – thus haven’t invested a cent. Moving existing cars down the class structure appeals to MANY people actively racing.