STL - what's going to be hot?

Yea? You think that will beat a World challenge car? (I think I heard WC cars were getting phased out or something, but the prep rules still allow that level of prep, no? So lap times should be pretty darn quick, and/or expensive, right?)
 
Power to weight is still power to weight, and an N/A 2.5L world challenge car (say one of the Bimmerworld E46 cars that are for sale) has to weigh 2750(or more) vs 2100 for a 1.8T VW with the 33mm restrictor (2200 - 50 for FWD and -50 for struts) The stock K03 inlet is 34 mm and we can get 22psi out of it. 1 mm reduction should only take you to 18-20 psi boost and we make 225 whp at 15psi in my buddy's 1.8T powered corrado street car on 87 octane. With a 3.38 r&p it's still pulling hard at 130mph in 5th gear (.80) so yeah I think a 1.8T 'rado would be tough to beat in STU. In STL the clear overdog is a B18C1 CRX especially with a standalone ecu to optimize VTEC and fuel/spark.
 
Andy Bettencourt said:
A SR-powered 240SX might be the real deal.

Wow.
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Sssssshhhhhhh. I'm working on that one. :p
The problem is that the NA SR20 is only available in the US in FWD variants, which don't fit in the S13/S14 chassis due to intake manifold, distributor, starter, and cam locations. The turbo SR was never available in the US, so it's out.

In order to make a FWD SR fit into an RWD platform, you have to use a shload of non-US spec parts, so it would be of questionable legality to try. You'd better have a stack of paperwork from the CRB allowing all of the JDM parts to make it work unless you want to get protested everywhere you go.
 
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Best estimated power to weights? Anyone done the math on their favorite STL car yet? I am thinking between 11.0 and 12.0 will be a real runner. Weight / whp.
 
Just a note, I have tried to get a delsol under 2000# for STU..Its almost impossible, we did lexan, removed all structure from the hood & deck lid, I also tried cutting holes in the bumper rebar and broke several hole saws, its made out of Kryptonite or titanium? We even cut off every non essential metal bracket, there is like 5 brackets holding the hyd clutch line & hose..... We are at 2180 with a skinny 160lb driver.The first 200# is easy... It has a B18 Integra LS engine with 180ish hp(its built), and a GSX box...11in corrado rotors & wilwood 4 puck calipers...FUN CAR!!!!! It did a 1.45.00 at MAM.WAHOO!!!!.. We are going to mill the head .030-.040 this winter, do a HOG out port job, Maybe a scirocco 4lb radiator, lighter oil cooler, Swedge tube/heim joint lower C-arms, The uppers are already light......

I would love to see this setup in a CRX, and some 225-45-15s A6's.....

Edit: Miatas are going to come in and ruin the ST classes just like they did to ITA.......Only kidding... I love my rabbit!
 
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Andy Bettencourt said:
SO what cars are people thinking have a chance? I have my idea...to be sprung mid thread!!!

Greg is thinking Teg with a what?
Ben likes a turbo and an SIR?

I am thinking its going to be Honduh-land. Specific output to cc's is their wheelhouse. If turbo cars dominate, expect SIR spec changes.
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1st gen MR2 with a currentish Celica 2zz motor in it. Think lotus Elise but all Toyota.
 
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2ZZ in 3rd gen MR2 (Spyder) - lighter and better than MkI MR2 and much lighter than MKII. otherwise, MrSideways has it.

I think 1.8L miatas still have a chance due to the sum of their parts phenomenon. 2.0L MX5 might be good too but HEAVY.

B16/17/18 cvics will be winning everywhere - they fit the rules to a t.
 
Research just in...1.8L Mazda motor won't even be a consideration. Just not good enough. Interested parties can PM me for the data.
 
Andy Bettencourt said:
Research just in...1.8L Mazda motor won't even be a consideration. Just not good enough. Interested parties can PM me for the data.
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I don't believe you; my research indicates otherwise. You to spend the money and time to build one to the nth degree of the rules and prove it's not competitive before it will be considered for any kind of adjustment...

I kill myself sometimes.

:happy204:
 
Chip42 said:
2ZZ in 3rd gen MR2 (Spyder) - lighter and better than MkI MR2 and much lighter than MKII. otherwise, MrSideways has it.

I think 1.8L miatas still have a chance due to the sum of their parts phenomenon. 2.0L MX5 might be good too but HEAVY.

B16/17/18 cvics will be winning everywhere - they fit the rules to a t.
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No coincidence the guy who is a originator /proponent of the category/class is a Honda guy.....
 
Greg Amy said:
I don't believe you; my research indicates otherwise. You to spend the money and time to build one to the nth degree of the rules and prove it's not competitive before it will be considered for any kind of adjustment...

I kill myself sometimes.

:happy204:
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I've seen hypothosis from your 'research' on other Miata motors! Equally funny!!! :happy204:

Seriously, I am just not the sucker who is going to waste money to prove that a car nobody wants competitive needs some help. Tyler's money tree must be overflowing this year.
 
But this is different. You have made it very clear in a couple posts that some should be content and shut up that there may be a class that a Miata won't be competive in. Now I have the ability to take the model out of the discussion and fully agree with you. Some classes are designed with paramters that exposes beauty marks and warts. STL is one of those that magnifies those attributes a lot...but I don't think you WANT the Miata to be competitive. As a Ad-Hoc member, you shouldn't care.
 
Andy Bettencourt said:
...but I don't think you WANT the Miata to be competitive. As a Ad-Hoc member, you shouldn't care.
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Tsk, tsk, tsk. Good try. But if ever you decide to stop stomping your feet and making a big scene in the grocery store and going to the garden to eat worms (and all that), you might be interested to learn you're - once again - wrong. I've actually been discussing how to make the class more attractive to the gay set, given they're apparently proving to be far too spoiled and whiny (Tyler's pressing interest excluded) to give it a shot. But I'm assured that in the end others who think differently than you (and not just Miata or Honda drivers) are "manning up" and taking the challenge.

But on a much brighter note, I think we now have a new IT.com strategic corollary to put up on the mantle next to The Roffe; I'll call it "The Bettencourt Corollary":

"I am just not the sucker who is going to waste money to prove that a car...needs some help."

Glad you've finally recognized that position.

GA
 
Greg Amy said:
Tsk, tsk, tsk. Good try. But if ever you decide to stop stomping your feet and making a big scene in the grocery store and going to the garden to eat worms (and all that), you might be interested to learn you're - once again - wrong. I've actually been discussing how to make the class more attractive to the gay set, given they're apparently proving to be far too spoiled and whiny (Tyler's pressing interest excluded) to give it a shot. But I'm assured that in the end others who think differently than you (and not just Miata or Honda drivers) are "manning up" and taking the challenge.

But on a much brighter note, I think we now have a new IT.com strategic corollary to put up on the mantle next to The Roffe; I'll call it "The Bettencourt Corollary":

"I am just not the sucker who is going to waste money to prove that a car...needs some help."

Glad you've finally recognized that position.

GA
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LMAO. All of that gibberish to point out in a grade-school way that I don't think the car can be competitive? If you would take off your Miata-hater glasses and read the posts - I don't really care if ANY car is competitive. It's a thread about what can be and why or why not. I also pointed out - factually BTW - that your posts in the past have certainly inferred that you are happy that this isn't a class that will be 'overrun' by Miatae.

The fact you have come to grips finally that it's a class with rules that limit the viable choices is evident in your new-to-us effort to broaden the appeal. And that's a good thing.

On your new corollary, love the "..." because it takes it out of context. When you write it again, make sure you include the 'that nobody WANTS competitive" as was originally written. :rolleyes:

Onto the data for everyone else: Just talked with Tyler and he has TWO sources that are confirming he can make the power that he is targeting. Still well below the Honda's but well within his goals for on-track parity. I liked what he had to say and it seemed to fly in the face of what I learned in my conversation with another prominant engine builder yesterday. If I had to go with my gut, I would lean toward his conclusions and think that if the CRB was willing to tweak some, it could be a decent choice.

For those of us who like RWD, is anyone considering anything conceptually other than an MR2 hybrid?
 
Andy Bettencourt said:
...love the "..." because it takes it out of context.
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Noooo....I took it out because you're wrong about that part, and spouting unsupported emotional tantrums. I figured it was better for you to not quote that part.

If you really want to believe that "that nobody WANTS [the Miata to be competitive in STL]", like there's some black-helicopter conspiracy among the STAC (or even the Club as a whole!) to actively develop a class that's intended to make the Miata uncompetitive (esp given the STAC has a very-Miata guy on it), well, I suppose you you can believe that, but the paranoia is misplaced. There is no one that I've ever spoken to that "wants" that in any shape or form. In fact I've heard quite the opposite!

At best, you can argue that we're just not willing to make the mental and categorical twisting gyrations that it would take to shoehorn that car into yet another category, like it's some kind of pre-ordained right that the Miata be competitive wherever it lies. Nope, sorry, it's not a right.

Call the class whatever you want, but in the end the rules are plainly right out there for everyone to choose. Members can take it, or leave it.

I think we have your answer... - GA
 
Greg Amy said:
Call the class whatever you want, but in the end the rules are plainly right out there for everyone to choose. Members can take it, or leave it.
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And I have never said otherwise, nor have I campaigned to have any adjustments made to any one car. What I have done is made suggestions (13-bee) that may allow for some diversity in a very popular chassis. Thinking about the CLASS's success.

As to the black helicopter rhetoric, of course not. But just be careful when you post stuff like this because it, right, or wrong, adds to your Miata mystique.

I'm really sorry that Mazda doesn't make BSHP (hp/cc) as good as others do, but maybe you should direct such misplaced ire at them instead? GOD FORBID we have a class in this club where the Miata isn't a dominant car..."just sayin"...
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Especially when there was NO mention of the Miata prior to you typing it. You have a very thick skin, but lets try and see the classes critisism for what it is.

Listen, I think it's very fair that many are worried about the success of the class given the amount of cars that people perceive to be capable of competing. No more and no less from me.
 
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