The new ITA class

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DITTO, and George, Im not sure I am all that happy about the club dropping the "recommendation from a member in good standing rule".
 
Originally posted by Jake:
Interesting. Heck, if you did that, you could probably put them in the same spec line as the ITA RX7, and if you did that, it would allow all RX7's to use the 13B. Hmm....
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I was just skimming the last 50 or so posts until I saw that... what an interesting idea! Not sure of the ramifications one way or the other, but interesting nonetheless.

I find it interesting that few ITA RX7 owners are chiming in either commenting on the new ITA or the possible move to B. I think most have become used to being mid pack and just want a place to compete whether in ITA, B or 7.


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Scott Rhea
It's not what you build...
it's how you build it
[url]www.izzyscustomcages.com [/url]
 
Note that my comments above are not about black helicopters and trilateralist-type conspiracies. They are simply observations about culture and how difficult change is.

When I say, "the organization won't let formulas work," I'm not talking about stonewalling tactics of those smokey elistists: I'm talking about the CULTURE of the entire organization and some very fundamental paradigms that, while they are seldom explicated in conversations like this, drive a lot of the decisions that happen.

K
 
Originally posted by Bill Miller:
That's pretty funny George. Especially since a forumla is at the heart of the PCA classification process. And if you don't understand that, what else do you call how you're going to take all those technical aspects of a car into account when it's classified and spec'd? The problem is, it won't ever be 'formalized', and worse yet, probably won't ever be refined. And BTW, Andy has already said that he felt that it wasn't in the best interest of the members to publish a formula, which could imply that one already has been developed. So, go blow that smoke some where else.
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Bill it's amazing how you have so much to say about something you know nothing about.

There is no mathematical formula. Too many subjectives.

And I guess you got the information about PCA being based upon a formula from all the ITAC conference calls you attended.

You should know about blowing smoke Bill.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
 
Originally posted by Knestis:
Note that my comments above are not about black helicopters and trilateralist-type conspiracies. They are simply observations about culture and how difficult change is.

When I say, "the organization won't let formulas work," I'm not talking about stonewalling tactics of those smokey elistists: I'm talking about the CULTURE of the entire organization and some very fundamental paradigms that, while they are seldom explicated in conversations like this, drive a lot of the decisions that happen.

K
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Kirk, what I am saying is that you cannot expect a category that has evolved quite successfully over 20+ years to suddenly throw out everything that has been done and start over which is damned near what you are expecting.

I'm also saying I personally think a well put together formula-based category can work an can be accepted - just not in IT. I furthermore have countless times pledged my support if you were to try to move MT forward.

From my end, I don't know what else I can do (since I'm willing to help, but won't do it for you).


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
 
I really do appreciate the support for the MT2 idea but this isn't about trying to convince the world that my ideas are "good." I was only making a Sunday morning editorial observation and I'm frankly not sure that the time is anything like near right for the MT concept in SCCA.

K
 
Maybe this will get us to 300....

I like IT racing as it presently stands. I think my car is probably correctly classed.

Who agrees?
 
Originally posted by Knestis:
I really do appreciate the support for the MT2 idea but this isn't about trying to convince the world that my ideas are "good." I was only making a Sunday morning editorial observation and I'm frankly not sure that the time is anything like near right for the MT concept in SCCA.

K
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I never thought you were trying to convince the world your ideas are "good." However, I think your idea for MT is good. Seriously.

I also think that the time could indeed be right for MT. I honestly don't see any radical changes for IT. The category has been successful enough that it's easier to muck it up than to make it better.

However, there does seem to be a desire, and perhaps a need to fill with a new category just about IT that allows more modern modifications as well as slighly more advanced modifications. I think the formula for MT could work very very well also. It could take pressure of IT in certain areas such as some people's desires for it to be a national category (I think if MT grows as I think it can, it would make a excellent candidate for national status). It would address competitive issues between cars in a very clear, mathematical fashion with clear allowances to equalize the performance paramaters.

You question the timing, but Production isn't really growing, GT seems to largely be dying. What should fill its place? I could see MT filling a need.

That's my feeling, right or wrong. But I don't think there is any mentality that simply will not allow a mathematical based rule set.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
 
George,

Too many subjective parameters for a formula to work in IT, yet it'll work just fine for MT. You crack me up!!!!

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608
 
Originally posted by Bill Miller:
George,

Too many subjective parameters for a formula to work in IT, yet it'll work just fine for MT. You crack me up!!!!
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Bill, you need to pay more attention.

I never said there were too many subjective parameters for a formula to work in IT. Please, search for it. It will keep you busy for hours.

What I said was there isn't a mathematical formula for IT. Don't expect one because there are too many subjective parameters being used. Never said it couldn't work. I said it will never happen because such a formula will turn IT upside down.

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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[This message has been edited by Geo (edited April 19, 2004).]
 
Jeff, WHAT ARE YOU $#$&^%$#$# THINKING, LOL
cant you tell were reinventing the wheel here and doing sicko-analisis at the same time?
smile.gif
 
Okay.... let me start something....
Speed Raycer .... what is midpack? The only time I see that is during pit stops in an ECR. And I almost always finish in top three with the ITA cars.

Jeff Young: Let me drive that Triumph.....Better charge up another bottle...heh..heh

#99 IT7 SEDIV 2000,2001,2002 SARRC Champion

What happened in 2003? 10 wins and a DNF... you go figure...Rear Steer??? When you go fishing make sure you take a HOOK! Get the picture? I'm suffering from a mental BLOCK. So I am told...but I'm BETTER now. Get my POINT?

I'll get down from my soap box now.... beware of the strong sarcasm ....LOL
 
Rick, you wouldn't know what to do with all that torque......

Seriously, I do wonder what someone who knows what they are doing could do with my car. It's still very driver limited, although I'm finally after a year sneaking up on the back of the ITS pack. The 280zs and 944s and E30s better watch out.
 
Yeah George, that's it. And pushing a bunch of cars around the current categories isn't going to turn things upside down. Especially when there seems to be no rhyme or reason as to how the decisions are made Yeah, you go right on believing that. Like I said before, a reclassification request gets shot down becuse the car would be deemed 'too fast' for the new class, yet 2 months later, same car is up for the same move, in '05. Yeah, these people know what they're doing!

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608
 
You can always feel free to volunteer for the job if you can do better...

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Ony Anglade
ITA Miata
Sugar Hill, GA
 
Jeff:

I'm with you. I'm there to have fun and learn. My car is not the obstacle keeping me from the front and I know it. Sure, I've spent countless hours toiling on the car, re-working this, improving that, but that is just the Engineer in me. I'm still the problem!

Ony:

I'm not sure I want Bill to volunteer for the ITAC. His interests are in Production...

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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com
 
Originally posted by Bill Miller:
George,

Too many subjective parameters for a formula to work in IT, yet it'll work just fine for MT. You crack me up!!!!
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Boy, when you go to the track for 4 days and actually race, you miss a lot!

Bill,

I think a formula based system can work when 100% of the cars and drivers are starting from ground zero. Totally level playing field with no history or grandfathered cars or people to piss off.

The method for reclass considerations and adjustments is based on number crunching and then very subjective pieces. No single formula can do it all. I think it has to be given the past/present/future of the classes and cars.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[This message has been edited by ITSRX7 (edited April 19, 2004).]
 
Originally posted by planet6racing:
The downtime is fun, but the most fun is camping overnight at the track and telling wild and crazy stories that may or may not be true.
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just like posting here. (g)
 
Good times and hairy times, heres a shot at Buttonwillow of three of us going for the same corner, the only that one made it was the car on the outside getting passed, my buddy Edik in the Acura spun on the inside taking me off the track with him.

http://members.aol.com/fastnblue/threewide
 
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