Time to write those letters - Head and Neck Restraints

Jeremy Billiel said:
Have you guys been to the race track recently? Go count me how many enclosed trailer there are larger than 26 feet long and how many semi's. Look racing is not cheap....

This bitching is wasting your time. The reality is you are the minority. Now, can SCCA be as successful without the average joe? Nope, but SCCA will still survive.
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Hey jeremy, what happens when they decide you have to pay $$ every year to have your cage inspected and certified? And that if you helmet has a surface scratch, it has to be sent back to the manufacturer for testing. And your gloves have to be replaced evey year because they have dates on them and are a "wear item"?
No stretch of the imagination here.
I'd I will damn will bitch about it, because there's not much that really pisses me off, but this does. And makes me wonder how much a mid-pack ITA car will be worth in 2012. Or maybe I'll just take it to the local short track and beat the hell out of it. God knows I'm safer in my car there than any of the other mini-stocks.
 
Steve - I hate spending money on this stuff. Really I do, but it's part of the game. You need to pay to play. This sport unfortunately is very expensive. You either have the money or you don't. If you have the money it doesn't matter. if you don't have the money and can't afford to buy a hans, than you don't race one weekend or you walk away.
 
I would also remind everyone that regions pay an amount of money for insurance to rent the track. This insurance is for liability and damage to the track.

While you may not like it, mandatory hans devices and pro-active safety systems reduces the insurance costs which means you race more. if the club does not do these things then you pay more in entry fees to run.

Which woudl you prefer? It one takes one lawsuit (see Rally for example) to shut this down or make it so cost prohibitive the club can no longer afford the insurance to put on races.
 
Are you saying the pricing for insurance will decrease by mandating as a fact? Then how by how much? No guesses, actual numbers.

Then how much does SCCA stand to lose in other aspects be it reduced entries - fine, that may just impact regions.

This bitching is wasting your time.
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That's odd, I thought Dick and a few other key people have been involved in this thread. I'm glad people don't just lay down this quickly.
 
Jeremy Billiel said:
Steve - I hate spending money on this stuff. Really I do, but it's part of the game. You need to pay to play. This sport unfortunately is very expensive. You either have the money or you don't. If you have the money it doesn't matter. if you don't have the money and can't afford to buy a hans, than you don't race one weekend or you walk away.
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Exactly my point; I'm pretty sure the majority of the BoD feels the same way. And maybe you're right, maybe some of us don't belong here...
 
Jeremy Billiel said:
Have you guys been to the race track recently? Go count me how many enclosed trailer there are larger than 26 feet long and how many semi's. Look racing is not cheap....

This bitching is wasting your time. The reality is you are the minority. Now, can SCCA be as successful without the average joe? Nope, but SCCA will still survive.
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Nobody is saying the SCCA wouldn't survive. And while there are plenty of semis and large enclosed trailers at the track on any given weekend there are just as many open trailers and guys on a budget. It affects us. You're right that our bitching is just wasting our time. Just as much as writing the letters opposing theses changes are us wasting our time. Doesn't mean we shouldn't do it though.
 
gran racing said:
Then how much does SCCA stand to lose in other aspects be it reduced entries - fine, that may just impact regions.
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This^^^^^ I can afford to race. I have a budget for it. Add a $1000 bill to my budget, and I will cut $1000 somewhere else. At least some of that will be in an entry fee or two to pay for my gear. How many more will cut their budget by cutting a race or two is the question.
 
Jeremy Billiel said:
I would also remind everyone that regions pay an amount of money for insurance to rent the track. This insurance is for liability and damage to the track.
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True

Jeremy Billiel said:
While you may not like it, mandatory hans devices and pro-active safety systems reduces the insurance costs which means you race more. if the club does not do these things then you pay more in entry fees to run.
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NOT true. Premiums are based on loss history. With no lawsuits regarding HNR devices in our recent history and no way to prove the benefit (or lack thereof) in any crash injuries there is no way to reduce (or even estimate) the insurance cost.
 
Jeremy Billiel said:
Steve - I hate spending money on this stuff. Really I do, but it's part of the game. You need to pay to play. This sport unfortunately is very expensive. You either have the money or you don't. If you have the money it doesn't matter. if you don't have the money and can't afford to buy a hans, than you don't race one weekend or you walk away.
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Huh. I guess I should just shut the fuck up. Huh. Really...

And your contention that insurance costs are being held down is pure bullshit as well.
 
Greg Amy said:
Problem is, Dick, the "hard core racer" never stays that way in Club Racing for long. There's only so many Ken Paysons in this world; many more will jump in but inevitably scale back (or choose to volunteer), with the vast majority becoming ScottKs and DarrellLs* who get frustrated with the time and money required and go do other things.

SCCA Club Racing's very survival depends on these Scotts and Darrells. Make those go away and there's not enough Kens left to make it a viable existence.

GA

* Two CT friends of mine who have become frustrated with the amount of time and money it costs to go club racing. They have both thrown in the towel just this past racing year, sold off everything racing-related, and are doing other hobbies and/or spending more time with their family.
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To Greg and Ron and Dave and anyone else who did not understand me, I think chasing away the casual racer is a huge f’ing problem.
 
I understood that Dick. Hell, I have to believe the casual racer is the majority of Club Racers otherwise we'd be wasting our money in pro stuff.
 
Guys insurance costs are being held down because we have had few incidents and the hans mandates help to reduce our future losses(liabilities). I work in the insurance industry so I know a thing or 2 about how that works.

I do need to appoligize as my tone was not appropriate. I am frustrated because you guys are continuing to make arguements that are very narrow and you are not seeing the "big picture".
 
Jeremy Billiel said:
Guys insurance costs are being held down because we have had few incidents and the hans mandates help to reduce our future losses(liabilities). .
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No. A reasonable H&N mandate might help reduce future losses. Forcing people to throw away perfectly good H&N systems in exchange for the SFI mandated ones doesn't really help all that much. A question for those that might know. How much has the club and/or the club's ins. had to pay out in the past as a result of lawsuits/injuries in general?
 
It plain and simple: by FORCING us to throw out devices that perform better, this mandate opens the SCCA to liability and is a dangerous idea if we really are so worried about liability!
 
Yet again Jeremy, I ask you to quote actual numbers versus speculation. By making the HNR mandate, how much does it save the club on the policy? Not how much if someone sues, then wins $X, then insurance goes up $<insert guess>. Real dollars. You said that it would, so we want to know how much. Hell, if it's that much give a coupon to every member that buys a device that meets the club's requirements. Or reduce entry fees.
 
so from the insurance viewpoint, what has caused the reduction in everyday car accident fatalities?

http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx

i was looking at the fatalities per 100 million miles, etc.

are cars safer? more airbags? more congestion?

http://thecityfix.com/u-s-traffic-fatalities-decline-despite-a-rise-in-congestion/

more restraints or better drivers?

is age a factor? price of fuel and slowdowns? seat belt enforcement?

because i am really curious why my car insurance keeps going up when the risk looks like so much less.........

and the other odd thing about my car insurance is for the better cars that have collision, the rate stays the same even though the car is worth less every year. i would think with the risk to the insurance company being less, the collision rate would decline?

what am i missing here on the risk vs. rate correlation?
 
You're not looking at price as influenced by supply and demand. They will charge exactly what folks will pay, just like anything else. Including gasoline at the pump.

By limiting the number of suppliers in the market (erecting barriers to entry and innovation, like design constraints) and driving mandates for drivers, SFI helps keep prices high for its members by managing BOTH sides.

K
 
Smart business strategy. Consumers getting ripped off. Lots of middlemen (including SCCA) that are part of the problem - some due to ignorance, some due to apathy, some protecting their share of the profits.
 
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