Track Photography....WTF...#@%@%#!!!!!!

I remember the first time Roz did this I had a lengthy email conversation with him about these poor practices. Just to be clear SCCA has nothing to do with these photographers. They pay to come into the events and they take pictures. Nothing the SCCA did wrong, but to get back on track ROZ's approach is poor at best.
 
Roz

Roz is a twit.

3 Years ago I made the mistake of buying 2 and shipping the rest back.
2 years ago he sent 15 picks only 3 were of my car in a practice session the rest were of another red miata... I was insulted, it was one of the only times I have ever been pole in SM so I really wanted a cool pic, so I sent him a bill for my postage mailing the 15 back. He sent me a 3 cent stamp. I think I got black listed after that as I haven't received anything else. So sad. :rolleyes: (Oh yeah I wrote on all the photos NOT MY CAR or Practice Session.)

My Dad still gets a bill every now and then for some picks he just trashed 3 or 4 years ago.

Benjamin Robertson
 
bills coming in the mail and my wife thinks I'm making stuff up....... Dan you are right..... I am cranky about drivng to CMP last weekend and getting 5 in. of snow....
 
I was subjected to the same bullshit from Roz in 2008. When I went to the Glen for the '09 Fun One, I took the pictures to the track, fully expecting a half-mad man to corner me and demand them back. He never showed. And after a year of incessant billing, he finally stopped the mailings.

Screw Roz, I don't need his pictures. I've got a friend who lives near WGI that takes motorsports pics at tracks all over the eastern US. He does it for his own fun, usually at pro events. I'll just ask him to take some shots of me at the Glen...
 
Banana Foto

Gee, I remember the good old days of getting the pic at the race track, There were pics of most cars and you got to take the pic home the same weekend. On track dark room(big red trailer). We would print the pic right at the track. ah ,the good old days.
 
IMHO, with the digital revolution, the best marketing plan is to post the pictures to a website (with 'proof' watermarked on them), and offer them to participants, announcing that they are available on some of the forums like this one. Yeah, you have to look at a lot of pictures to find your car, but it brings back some great (maybe) memories from the event, you only get what you really want, and the customers don't feel harassed!

Jeff Loewe from Cincinnati does a great job at Mid-Ohio.
 
In this day and age, that is an outdated method he's using.
Far better to have a site up with the proofs listed and allow people to buy them.
Of course, the sales will drop quite a bit. When something lands in your mailbox with a bill, a lot of folks will buy them even though they wouldn't have if they had to go through selecting and paying up front.
I haven't really seen him around much lately. And what is too bad about that is he was one of the more consistant ones to show up at a race. There hasn't been anyone else that I am aware of who has been there on such a regular basis.
Let's face it, when something memorable happens, having the picture makes it really sweet.
Case in point, last summer, my husband and I got to take a side by side victory lap at NHMS. And I haven't been able to find even so much a one lousy cell phone pic of it. :(
I can tell you I wouldn't have complained about getting a $91 bill from Roz for those shots.
 
Almost all of the dog events I attend have a photographer with on-site printing, plus the photos are available a day or so later on-line for purchase also, in some cases for downloading directly to your computer, for a very reasonable fee. It works because they takes LOTS of pictures, print none until you purchase, and when you see a price of $6 to $10 each for downloading to use any way we want, most of us think it's a pretty good deal. Most of them (the ones who did good work to begin with) are seeing better revenue streams because they are giving the customer what they want.

We have been burned by Roz and Ken both. Neither got a penny and we kept the prints. Gordon always did a better job anyway.
 
Jeremy Billiel said:
...Just to be clear SCCA has nothing to do with these photographers. They pay to come into the events and they take pictures. Nothing the SCCA did wrong...
Click to expand...

Who do they pay, the region or the track? And how is he getting my name and address?

Access I don't really care about, but my personal information I do care about.

Does he get my personal info directly from SCCA by getting a list of names and addresses of license holders? I think this is kosher, lots of vendors to it. What is not kosher is SCCA selling my name and address to someone who uses that information illegally.

Also not kosher would be if the region or track is selling my name and address to a vendor. That's a data privacy issue.

I realize this guy needs to make money and honestly he shoots some good shots. But there is a reason this type of solicitation is illegal.

And beside it being illegal, the last thing I need is a "bill" coming in the mail every month for even a bogus racing expense to remind my wife of the real racing expenses. Personally I have no moral qualms about keeping the photos and doing with them as I please. I should be charging him for the grief I get from my wife.
 
StephF said:
In this day and age, that is an outdated method he's using.
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Steph, I agree with you 100%. It's a shame nobody got a side by side photo of you and hubby doing a victory lap together...but you still have the memory.
 
Roz must have gone through his dormant accounts recently, as we just started getting bills again for an event in 1998. The last time this happened I took the time to call the guy and he was beyond hostile, with the conversation ending with him threatening to "blacklist" me. Umm, wasn't that the point?

The very next event he took pictures of me and sent a bill anyway. So much for blacklisting, and the images weren't even any good. He has kept on sending bills. The one that came last week got marked like all the others: REFUSED - RETURN TO SENDER. I'm thinking that the post office link above might be better.
 
StephF said:
Let's face it, when something memorable happens, having the picture makes it really sweet.
Case in point, last summer, my husband and I got to take a side by side victory lap at NHMS. And I haven't been able to find even so much a one lousy cell phone pic of it. :(
I can tell you I wouldn't have complained about getting a $91 bill from Roz for those shots.
Click to expand...

Ah, that's teh other side of the story...I've gotten, in 10+ years of doing this stupid stuff, ONE shot that was actually cool. I used to think, "ooo, this wild thing happened in this race right in FRONT of where that photog always takes his pictures. Can't wait to see the pictures."

Then I'd get the prints in the mail and I'd have to compare them to others to see that the trees were in a different position due to wind, to know they were different than the old shots I already had a thousand of. In other words same old bring 3/4 front shot.

I've done my share of on side photography, so i know it's tough to be in the right place at the right time, but, frankly, I have no interest of yet another shot that looks like it was taken in a studio. And good shots CAN be done. Look at Doug Kozas work.

There's aguy who goes to SCDA events, and has a computer with a monitor playing a slideshow of past events, and after lunch of the morning groups right in the corner of the garage. Want to see your car? Go look up his shots by number. I think he does OK.
 
The answer is simple:

- Print the prints and mail them - at your own risk. It's the cost of doing business in the dark ages. Include a note that tells everyone what races you will be at and invite them to buy a print that they like in any size or format.

- Don't print the images at the track - and if you REALLY want to sink 100% of your cost into a product you don't know if the potential buyer will even want, at least make the cost worth it. I bet he would sell MORE than double at $10 what he sells at $20.

- Step into the technology era. Walk around with your laptop and show people digital images. Sell them for a nice price and print them later. 1/2 the labor and 1/2 the upfront cost.
 
Only one person gets what I'm talking about our information being given to Roz..... The invoice had my class and numbers I picked for the event.....this had to come from registration info........... Can people get our checking acct # and credit card info too????
Remember our home addresses are coming from somewhere..... PLEASE, in this day and age information of members should not be given out due to fraud and privacy.

Greg
 
gpeluso said:
Only one person gets what I'm talking about our information being given to Roz..... The invoice had my class and numbers I picked for the event.....this had to come from registration info........... Can people get our checking acct # and credit card info too????
Remember our home addresses are coming from somewhere..... PLEASE, in this day and age information of members should not be given out due to fraud and privacy.

Greg
Click to expand...

I hear you. I don't like it either. I wonder if we missed some fine print somewhere when we signed on to go SCCA racing. You know, like signing up for a mag subscription, you're liable to have your name/address/whatever given away. I'd certainly like to know what the hell's going on. I'd assume with the club and its regions always hard-up for cash, they're gonna do some creative stuff to raise the dough. Maybe our ever-helpful BoD can step in and save the day....
 
gpeluso said:
Only one person gets what I'm talking about our information being given to Roz..... The invoice had my class and numbers I picked for the event.....this had to come from registration info........... Can people get our checking acct # and credit card info too????
Remember our home addresses are coming from somewhere..... PLEASE, in this day and age information of members should not be given out due to fraud and privacy.

Greg
Click to expand...

A wild guess would be an entry list and a membership list.
I seriously doubt that you have to worry about cc# and checking acct# though.
A lot of info about you is out online anyway, so if you are worried about fraud, start by goggling yourself.
 
StephF said:
A wild guess would be an entry list and a membership list.
I seriously doubt that you have to worry about cc# and checking acct# though.
A lot of info about you is out online anyway, so if you are worried about fraud, start by goggling yourself.
Click to expand...

Thats correct SCCA does NOT distribute addresses or anything else. On the registration list though your home town is listed and google is a wonderful tool.
 
"Thats correct SCCA does NOT distribute addresses or anything else"

Not true. Any region can buy member address labels directly from the national office. And I assume vendors can also, since I get all these fancy race catalogs. I'm pretty sure Vic Secret didn't sell my name to them.

The point isn't that you can google me and find video of my colonscopy. I think Greg's point is that there was information included in his bill that was not on the entry list or results.
On the other hand, this has been going on for decades. :dead_horse:
 
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