VIR lap times for ITS

Greg... I totally agree with the perception that the Bimmers are legal. They don't have to cheat to win. And as for the e36 going to E/P, I think it would dominate there as well. This past weekend at the national at VIR, Grayson Upchurch (Sports Car's second pick to win the Runoffs) won the E/P race with a best lap time of 2:09.9. That's smokin' fast but when compared to Wittel's time of 2;12.9 in an ITS car... well it doesn't take much imagination to see the potential. I'd just as soon see the Bimmers go elswhere and give us back our class.
 
Originally posted by grega:
I'm inferring that you think they're cheating to get that kind of horsepower? Frankly, I'd wager they're not. Consider several factors:[/URL]
Click to expand...

Whoa, no, I'm new to this, that is, this board and the SCCA. I'm not new to building engines - I have built my own over the last 20 years for cars and bikes and am proud of some of what I've done - 500+ hp NA SB Fords among some of them. I'm familar with Motec engine management systems, fantastic sustems and pricey, as I've had the opportunity to tune two of them in GT40s I've help build.

I have a very good understanding for what it takes to make hp and based on my novice eye toward IT motors it just seems like a strong engine to me, nothing more, nothing less. Good design and I like them.

I'm just trying to learn what is common in IT and where different cars stand. The BMWs intrigue me since I have one and wanted to race one, I just didn't have the cash to do it. So, I went for an oddball, the JH, that I can afford and race with sweat equity.

Sorry if my questions stirred up something I don't have a complete history of or do not understand. No offense meant.

------------------
Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
BMW E36 M3
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!


[This message has been edited by rlearp (edited August 12, 2004).]
 
I suspect all the advantage is because of the open ECU rule. Only two cars in DC region dominate, yet, the rest of the less developed (or cost conscious) E-36 drivers are running far enough behind that the best prepped 240's, Rx7's etc are running similar times and having a good race.
The E-36 would have been better suited to ITE than ITS.
 
Envy is the correct word for my atitude...No hard feelings.
Restrictors, constrictors, weight and anchors hopefully are in the future.
Seriously, parity will benefit all. Finding it with performance compensations will take time.

David Spillman
 
Sorry to check in from the North East but in our region the Mazda RX-7s are still the cars to beat. Running on tracks like Lime Rock and NHIS equalize any hp advantage the E-36 might have. At both of those tracks the lap records are still held by someone driving a Mazda(and receltly set). Our cars are developed to the extent of the rules(less Motec) and we don't see any great power advantage other than the uphill at NHIS. I think that different tracks favor different cars. NHIS is like a big autocross course and the Mazda's still hold a big advantage there and Lime Rock is a handling track.

If someone is going to spend $60,000-$80,000 to develop an ITS Super car than they should win. Just because some people dominate in their regions deosn't mean that racing in other regions should suffer. We have great races in the North East Region with the probability of a Mazda winning just as equal as someone in a well prepared E-36.

BTW if anyony has one of those 255hp motors for sale E-mail privately!

Rob Driscoll
 
The biggest question is why some people feel the need to spend that kind of money to win a Regional only class. More dollars than they have sense?

For what some of these top ITS cars are worth, why not run in Touring, GT, Production etc where you have a better chance of securing sponsorship dollars since you would then have the option of going to the Runoffs and being on national TV? Do they think the pro teams are looking for their next contract driver at a Regional that now doesn't even get the distinction of having the results posted in SportsCar?

IT "used" to be for the "grass roots" racers and "shade tree" mechanics who only raced for the competition, the thrill and the fact they could do it competively without the need to mortgage all their possesions.

[This message has been edited by 2Many Z's (edited August 13, 2004).]
 
In my opinion, it's all about the shops that build and prep the cars. The business that build/fields winning cars gets more business.


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Ony Anglade
ITA Miata
Sugar Hill, GA
 
Originally posted by robits325is:
BTW if anyony has one of those 255hp motors for sale E-mail privately!

Rob Driscoll
Click to expand...

If you want to use the phone instead...it will take you two calls. One to Rebello (motor) and one to Bimmerworld (Motec).

smile.gif


AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
ITS RX-7 & Spec Miata 1.6 (ITA project)
New England Region R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com
 
Andy, it would take most of us 3 calls - w/ the third being to our credit card co. to raise our limit!
 
i guess i didn't make enough phone calls....
i built a top of the line 325 with a "to the limit" motor done by a(the) top bmw engine builder and it ain't putting out 220 at the rear wheels. more like <200. hmmmm.
 
Originally posted by 2Many Z's:
The biggest question is why some people feel the need to spend that kind of money to win a Regional only class. More dollars than they have sense?

For what some of these top ITS cars are worth, why not run in Touring, GT, Production etc where you have a better chance of securing sponsorship dollars since you would then have the option of going to the Runoffs and being on national TV? Do they think the pro teams are looking for their next contract driver at a Regional that now doesn't even get the distinction of having the results posted in SportsCar?


[This message has been edited by 2Many Z's (edited August 13, 2004).]
Click to expand...

Um, because some people can afford an expensive car/part/trailer/tow vehicle with no more pain than you feel with a cheap car/part/trailer/tow vehicle? Sponsorship, professional rides etc. is no more on their radar than yours. Even some rich guys just do it for the fun, competition, and camaraderie. The rules in this class don't limit how much you can spend. Time to get over it.

------------------
katman
 
Originally posted by mlytle:
i guess i didn't make enough phone calls....
i built a top of the line 325 with a "to the limit" motor done by a(the) top bmw engine builder and it ain't putting out 220 at the rear wheels. more like <200. hmmmm.
Click to expand...

Please DO NOT and I repeat DO NOT bring reality to this thread or forum regarding the HP potential of the magical E36 M50 motor. How dare you!

Let me to get this thread back on track with a more typical IT Forum response…

Everybody knows it is possible to get at least 270 HP (maybe more!) at the crank of an E36 2.5 motor by simply switching from a black air filter to a green one. This tweak is common knowledge in the BMW community, just make a few phone calls and tell them you know the secret handshake.

Also, it has recently been verified that some of these IT motors are being put together at BMW’s F1 Motor Facility in Munich, being dyno’ed at WilliamsF1 in England and finally blessed by Frank Williams himself. This is clearly not in the spirit of IT racing! There is even a rumor that Ralf Schumacher will personally perform the first oil change on each engine purchased (at least until he moves to Toyota).

Given these hard facts, the SCCA must add at least 250 pounds to the E36 immediately!

Yeah, that’s the ticket! Now we’re back on track!
wink.gif
 
I like the jokes but I am assuming that ya'll with 'built' motors have the following:

Full Rebello build
MOTEC engine management
Tuned by Bimmerworld

I know each of these suppliers/builders isn't without equal but has anyone SEEN Chet's dyno sheets? My info comes from a real powerful E36 and ACTUAL dyno numbers. That team then requests info from BW on how some of the E36's are running the times they are. They answer? Through development and inginuity - another 15whp sinse his build.

Hats off to the builders but until you have done it all, I'm not surprised you don't belive the power numbers.

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
ITS RX-7 & Spec Miata 1.6 (ITA project)
New England Region R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com
 
oh geez, sorry bruce! forgot to add in the 20hp for the blue airfilter! now i got it! what was i thinking?
wink.gif




[This message has been edited by mlytle (edited August 26, 2004).]
 
is adding motec worth 25 rwhp? that would be the delta i am looking at...

ahhh, more projects for the winter..
wink.gif
 
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