Bruce Shafer
New member
Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt:
Actually Bruce, if you read carefully, I believe I wrote that the power potential WAS documented and that I had SEEN the sheets. I never said I HAD any documents in my posession.
BTW: congrats on your short-course track record at Sebring...that Dean motor must be strong!
AB
Andy, your welcome! The lap record is news to me.
For the record that is the same motor that was only able to finish 2nd in ITS at Homestead several weeks prior the Sebring race. I lost to a well driven and well prepared RX7, no surprise there.
JeffYoung
New member
Bruce/Grafton, this is going to sound more confrontational than it should -- I just want a better understanding of the issue.
It seems to me that most S cars are classed at or slightly less than their curb weight (the rough idea being that you take the curb weight, subtract a few hundred pounds for interior materials and add back 150 or so for the cage). I may be wrong, but this is my general understanding.
The exception to this is the 325, which has a curb weight of around 3100 (is that right?) and a race weight of 2800.
By this rough estimation, the "correct" race weight for the 325 (results aside) would be 3000 lbs.
Interested in your thoughts on this, and just looking to be more informed about the issue.
Thanks.
Jeff
It seems to me that most S cars are classed at or slightly less than their curb weight (the rough idea being that you take the curb weight, subtract a few hundred pounds for interior materials and add back 150 or so for the cage). I may be wrong, but this is my general understanding.
The exception to this is the 325, which has a curb weight of around 3100 (is that right?) and a race weight of 2800.
By this rough estimation, the "correct" race weight for the 325 (results aside) would be 3000 lbs.
Interested in your thoughts on this, and just looking to be more informed about the issue.
Thanks.
Jeff
Bruce Shafer
New member
Jeff, not confrontational at all.
I have no idea what BMW claimed for the weight of the E36. A quick Google search didn't turn up much. Somebody needs to come up with a brochure or information from '92 and see what BMW claimed for the E36 at that time.
The GCR weight for the E36 is 2850.
I have no idea what BMW claimed for the weight of the E36. A quick Google search didn't turn up much. Somebody needs to come up with a brochure or information from '92 and see what BMW claimed for the E36 at that time.
The GCR weight for the E36 is 2850.
Bruce Shafer
New member
Darin, interesting that you ask. I have an appointment to take my car down to a reputable BMW tuner in Miami on Tuesday, 11/09/04 for a dyno session. The car is exactly as it came off the track at Sebring with the exception of a new water pump and thermostat. I have experienced intermittent overheating problems all summer and again this past weekend at Sebring.
I would be more than happy to share the information that I obtain with the Club Racing Board or anybody else in the position to make Competition Adjustments. I would like to put an end to this hysteria once and for all with some cold, hard numbers.
MSN's Carpoint, which I've found to be reasonable consistent and fairly accurate (I suspect the data is based off of manufacturer's data sheets), indicates the curb weight of the '95 325is was 3087 pounds (oink!)
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/spec_Ext...VIP&tab=2&sub=3
For comparison, Carpoint indicates the curb weight of the '91 RX-7 was 2787 (ITS legal weight, 2680); the '93 Acura GSR was 2657 (ITS legal weight, 2680), and my '92 NX2000 at 2472 (ITS legal weight, 2490).
GA
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/spec_Ext...VIP&tab=2&sub=3
For comparison, Carpoint indicates the curb weight of the '91 RX-7 was 2787 (ITS legal weight, 2680); the '93 Acura GSR was 2657 (ITS legal weight, 2680), and my '92 NX2000 at 2472 (ITS legal weight, 2490).
GA
Bruce Shafer
New member
You need to get the weight of the '92, the car that was initially classified.
Curb weight '92 manual 3020 lbs on the MSN.autos website.
Based on these numbers, the Mazda RX-7 runs at 96% of its estimated curb weight. The E36 runs at 94%.
[This message has been edited by Bruce Shafer (edited November 05, 2004).]
Curb weight '92 manual 3020 lbs on the MSN.autos website.
Based on these numbers, the Mazda RX-7 runs at 96% of its estimated curb weight. The E36 runs at 94%.
[This message has been edited by Bruce Shafer (edited November 05, 2004).]
Bruce Shafer
New member
Check out this link:
http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/used/re...#specifications
1992 to 1998 E36 Curb weight: 2866.
http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/used/re...#specifications
1992 to 1998 E36 Curb weight: 2866.
Banzai240
New member
Guys,
I can honestly tell you that Curb weight has very little to do with the classification weight, other than to make a santity check on whether the car will be able to make the specified weight...
Cars are being considered based on their performance potential and their weights set accordingly. The only time curb weight is looked at is when we check to see if the specified weight is realistic. And, even then, I personally, have been looking at the Touring car specifications first, if applicable, to see what weight the car might have been raced at in the past...
At the end of the process however, the weight specified is based on performance potential, and has little to do with factory weight, so there really is no correlation between spec weight and curb weight... or at least not one that means anything...
------------------
Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Renton, WA
ITS '97 240SX
I can honestly tell you that Curb weight has very little to do with the classification weight, other than to make a santity check on whether the car will be able to make the specified weight...
Cars are being considered based on their performance potential and their weights set accordingly. The only time curb weight is looked at is when we check to see if the specified weight is realistic. And, even then, I personally, have been looking at the Touring car specifications first, if applicable, to see what weight the car might have been raced at in the past...
At the end of the process however, the weight specified is based on performance potential, and has little to do with factory weight, so there really is no correlation between spec weight and curb weight... or at least not one that means anything...
------------------
Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Renton, WA
ITS '97 240SX
Bruce Shafer
New member
Darin, surprised you missed one of my previous posts. Let me post it again...
Darin, interesting that you ask. I have an appointment to take my car down to a reputable BMW tuner in Miami on Tuesday, 11/09/04 for a dyno session. The car is exactly as it came off the track at Sebring with the exception of a new water pump and thermostat. I have experienced intermittent overheating problems all summer and again this past weekend at Sebring.
I would be more than happy to share the information that I obtain with the Club Racing Board or anybody else in the position to make Competition Adjustments. I would like to put an end to this hysteria once and for all with some cold, hard numbers.
Darin, interesting that you ask. I have an appointment to take my car down to a reputable BMW tuner in Miami on Tuesday, 11/09/04 for a dyno session. The car is exactly as it came off the track at Sebring with the exception of a new water pump and thermostat. I have experienced intermittent overheating problems all summer and again this past weekend at Sebring.
I would be more than happy to share the information that I obtain with the Club Racing Board or anybody else in the position to make Competition Adjustments. I would like to put an end to this hysteria once and for all with some cold, hard numbers.
Andy Bettencourt
Super Moderator
Weird. The E36 cars are way heavier. My 1995 M3 (ordered car with no sunroof, no leather and no trip computer) weight in at 3097 on certified scales.
Edmunds shows what most of the data here shows - over 3000lb curb weight.
[url=http://www.edmunds.com/used/1992/bmw/3series/167/specs.html?tid=edmunds.u.prices.leftsidenav..6.BMW*]http://www.edmunds.com/used/1992/bmw/3seri...sidenav..6.BMW*
AB
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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
ITS RX-7 and ITA project SM
www.flatout-motorsports.com
Bruce Shafer
New member
Thanks Darin. I just wanted to be sure you read the post.
Bruce Shafer
New member
Posted twice!
[This message has been edited by Bruce Shafer (edited November 06, 2004).]
[This message has been edited by Bruce Shafer (edited November 06, 2004).]
Andy Bettencourt
Super Moderator
Yup. The fastest RX-7 and the fastest Z in the country.
Any addition in weight will just bring the car in line with everything else in the class. A BMW has run a 1:40.8 at RA this weekend. 1 full second is the current delta. Not huge, but a significant data point non-the-less.
AB
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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
ITS RX-7 and ITA project SM
www.flatout-motorsports.com
Bruce Shafer
New member
Funny I don't see the #70 SpeedSource Car on the entry list.
I guess math isn't your strong point. Looks more like .6 seconds to me.
Pos No. Name Class Overall
1 56 EDWARD YORK ITS 1:40.890
2 11 CHET WITTEL ITS 1:41.183
3 12 JOHN WILLIAMS ITS 1:41.527
4 04 NICK LEVERONE ITS 1:41.827
robits325is
New member
Andy Bettencourt
Super Moderator
Bruce:
Got all the info? Getting reports from the event? Nope.
BMW ran 1:40.8 in test session. That was the reference point to the RX-7 time.
Is it Syl in the RX that you need to see?
Either way, it will be a fun race to watch and draw paranoid conclusions from!
AB
AB
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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
ITS RX-7 and ITA project SM
www.flatout-motorsports.com