Weight reduction, 4-door car

"additional tube elements is permitted within*the boundaries of the cage structure."

I don't think rear door bars would be compliant unless you are making a case for the passenger area being part of the drivers compartment.



Stephen.
 
Matt93SE said:
IMO, if the car can't make weight otherwise, I don't see a reason why an IT car shouldn't be allowed to remove window motors and whatnot. (It falls within class philosophy I would think).
Write your friendly CRB a letter requesting clarification of such, and/or allowance to remove that junk if it is not currently allowed.

But hey, that's just me. These are freakin race cars. I don't need no window motor or washer fluid reservoir in my freakin race car.

... Yeah, I went there. Again.
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Good luck with that line of thinking. It's been discussed on the forum many times with the conclusion that if it is allowed IT goes to hell, your wife leaves you, and you'll be on your knees in a nasty hotel room working for a place to sleep.
 
Ron Earp said:
Good luck with that line of thinking. It's been discussed on the forum many times with the conclusion that if it is allowed IT goes to hell, your wife leaves you, and you'll be on your knees in a nasty hotel room working for a place to sleep.
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Sounds like a normal race weekend to me anyway! Begging the fast guys for tire takeoffs, sleeping on the trailer floor, and showering in the bathroom sink! (Welcome to the big-budget world of Super Touring! HA!!)
 
Good timing on this discussion. We are building an E36 M3 sedan to do some endurance races. The rules are more open there. It would be an ITE car anyway. My question is can the rear doors be welded shut?
Brad
 
tsrauto51 said:
Good timing on this discussion. We are building an E36 M3 sedan to do some endurance races. The rules are more open there. It would be an ITE car anyway. My question is can the rear doors be welded shut?
Brad
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ITE various from region to region. In NC an ITE car is a race that that meets IT SAFETY specifications, not IT prep levels. So, your ITE M3 can be seam welded, V8 transplanted, with carbon fiber brakes if that flips your lid.

I'm considering an ITE "prep package" for my ITS Mustang to run in an enduro event. We'd have a different engine and brakes, but otherwise it'd be an ITS car.
 
StephenB said:
"additional tube elements is permitted within*the boundaries of the cage structure."

I don't think rear door bars would be compliant unless you are making a case for the passenger area being part of the drivers compartment.



Stephen.
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Many of us have added a bar between the rear shock tower area. Is this part of the driver compartment? By your reasoning these would not be allowed or did I misunderstand you?
 
That would be legal in my opinion because it is within the confines of the required roll cage structure. Well actually as I type this I realize it doesn't even matter if it's required since that word is not within the regs. So I guess now we need classification on what a "cage structure" is to know what is inside of that area.... Ok so now I am wondering what the definition is on inside... inside geographically from all directions or just when viewing from the top or just the side, or does it just need to attach to the cage structure?

So many ways to interpret it... :)

Stephen.
 
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Greg Amy said:
I suggest it meets the literal interpretation of the regs (not quite sure how you're going to "seal" the inner door cavity to the tubes and still be able to open the door) and I also suggest it's intorturation and potentially against the spirit of the regs could lead to being deemed non-compliant.

Worth a request for clarification (and/or request for regs change) before spending the money.

- GA
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But you only have to seal the tubes if they go through the listed bulkhead between the passenger compartment and the trunk/cargo/fuel tank/fuel cell area; otherwise, you'd also have to seal the front door bars too. As you point out the section on door panel modification doesn't specify front or rear doors. Besides you must admit there's nothing wrong with a literal interpretation. IISYCYC.
 
Most 4 dr cars have the seat back into the rear seat area. Do the rules prohibit boring a cage hole through the B pillar? Doing so would allow the rear door to be gutted to meet the NASCAR bar rule.

It also seems as tho you can move the seat back , move the pedals a bit and extend the steering column with a race wheel.


The SMAC simply says, yes gut both doors and carry on.
 
In reality I don't think anyone would care, let alone protest if the rear doors were gutted.......... with door bars

Not sure how to interpret the rules in this regard (far smarter people than me are discussing it) but I think it falls within the spirit of the rules.............
 
Flyinglizard said:
Most 4 dr cars have the seat back into the rear seat area. Do the rules prohibit boring a cage hole through the B pillar? Doing so would allow the rear door to be gutted to meet the NASCAR bar rule.
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the rules do not ALLOW cutting the B pillar, only bulkheads and inner door panels with a NASCAR bar. no allowance means not legal to do so.

there have been a lot of cages that are not as good as they could have been because of design compromises to avoid cutting the pillar when forming the NASCAR bars, but thems the rules. I believe it stems from a desire to not see major structural weakening of the stock tub in a situation where the cage has limited allowed attachment points, and I generally support that rationale.

on EDIT:

to even produce a NASCAR rear door bar would effectively be adding "U" shaped "wings" to the required members of the cage in order to have them protrude from the main hoop / rear bracing structure (which must be straight) into the rear door cavity. it could be argued as legal, but why bother? also, in a side-impact, this could increase the forces on the rear bracing structure by passing them directly to the cage rather than the cage reinforcing the area inside of the tub and accepting loads as distributed through same. so the cage would in turn need to have added elements (from base requirements) to help distribute these loads and brace against deformation or collapse from them, again, all within the allowed mounting points.
 
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please re-read what Greg already mentioned..

Remember in Improved touring if it does not specifically say you can, then you cannot.

In recap.. It says door bars are mandatory between front and main hoop.. Nothing to do with the rear of the car.

So this is not an allowance for rear bars.

"Door side tubes may extend into the front door."

This specifically allows the bars to extend into the front door. Not the rear.

In Improved Touring, Spec Miata, and Touring the door window glass, window operating mechanism, inner door trim panel, armrest, map pockets, wiring harnesses for door locks, windows, power mirrors, seat wiring, etc., and inside door latch/lock operating mechanism may be removed and the inner door structural panel may be modified, but not removed only if the door bars extend into the door cavity."

Therefore, one can remove/modify all those parts only if the doors bars extend into the door cavity. However, if one is only allowed to extend the tubes into the front door, then it follows you cannot remove those items from the rear door.

To recap per the GCR. Cutting the door structure is allowed provided the cage protrudes into them. It specifically states that the cage is allowed to protrude into the front doors. Nothing allows for cutting the inner door structure of the rear door.
 
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