WGI Fun one 9/17,9/18
- Thread starter moto62
- Start date
benspeed
New member
The ITS racing was outstanding at the Glen. The race on Saturday had at least 6-7 lead changes over 4 cars. The front pack was extremely tight and everybody ran clean - zero contact and some of the best racing I've ever experienced. My in car video is right out of a European Touring car video or Speed Touring footage. Way to go and thanks all.
1 - Bergeron - BMW 2:15.6
2- Camedella - Porshce 2:16.5
3- Phillips - Mazda 2:17.7
The competition board should be commended - there were 4 makes of car that contended for the win.
On Sunday the racing was also outstanding excepting getting tangled up passing a lap car while running third. Leaders coming through fast and I don't think he saw me coming and came down and I was blasting through without checking brakes - closing speed was 30+mph. My car sustained some pretty bad damage and the other fellow was even worse off. Didn't know him - ITA Mazda - we both made sure we were OK and went off lick the wounds in the paddock.
1 - Sheppard - BMW 1:29 ?
2- Bergeron - BMW
3 - Wheeler - Acura
(Didn't stick around for the sheets-4 hour tow)
With regard to the concerns over cheating - I will bring up the issue at the next NNJR Board of Directors meeting and see how this can be addressed at the upcoming Mini-Con. We should seek to train enough tech staff on the fundamental motor cheats so people know that a protest can and will be followed through promptly and professionally. I always err on the side that we all run legal, but the real threat of being turned out as a cheater like that lowlife at the NAARC last year will make people think twice. The problem is rarely is anybody asked to open the hood in impound and no tech guys really inspect when we do - they largely leave it to the drivers who are typically all friends and wont seek to make enemies. No criticism of tech - this is the current procedure. And I'm a driver and don't know my piston from my rotor - I wouldn't know a cheat if it was staring me in the face.
I would want the agenda at the Mini-Con to address proceedure, cost, training and tools. I'd be intrested if there was a means to check a motor for potential cheats before tearing it apart. Any way to identify tell tale clues on piston and rotary motors without major surgery?
Thanks again to all the drivers at the Glen - stands as one of the best events all year (and judging from the level of competition - a ton of folks had the game face on!)
Cheers,
b
1 - Bergeron - BMW 2:15.6
2- Camedella - Porshce 2:16.5
3- Phillips - Mazda 2:17.7
The competition board should be commended - there were 4 makes of car that contended for the win.
On Sunday the racing was also outstanding excepting getting tangled up passing a lap car while running third. Leaders coming through fast and I don't think he saw me coming and came down and I was blasting through without checking brakes - closing speed was 30+mph. My car sustained some pretty bad damage and the other fellow was even worse off. Didn't know him - ITA Mazda - we both made sure we were OK and went off lick the wounds in the paddock.
1 - Sheppard - BMW 1:29 ?
2- Bergeron - BMW
3 - Wheeler - Acura
(Didn't stick around for the sheets-4 hour tow)
With regard to the concerns over cheating - I will bring up the issue at the next NNJR Board of Directors meeting and see how this can be addressed at the upcoming Mini-Con. We should seek to train enough tech staff on the fundamental motor cheats so people know that a protest can and will be followed through promptly and professionally. I always err on the side that we all run legal, but the real threat of being turned out as a cheater like that lowlife at the NAARC last year will make people think twice. The problem is rarely is anybody asked to open the hood in impound and no tech guys really inspect when we do - they largely leave it to the drivers who are typically all friends and wont seek to make enemies. No criticism of tech - this is the current procedure. And I'm a driver and don't know my piston from my rotor - I wouldn't know a cheat if it was staring me in the face.
I would want the agenda at the Mini-Con to address proceedure, cost, training and tools. I'd be intrested if there was a means to check a motor for potential cheats before tearing it apart. Any way to identify tell tale clues on piston and rotary motors without major surgery?
Thanks again to all the drivers at the Glen - stands as one of the best events all year (and judging from the level of competition - a ton of folks had the game face on!)
Cheers,
b
This was my first time running in ITA (I have raced in many other groups) and it was an interesting weekend. I ran Bret's Miata (which is for sale) and got to meet some great drivers and nice people in the group. For the most part it was a great time. Tom Blaney and Ray it was my pleasure to run with you guys and I would love to share the track with you anytime.
I was lucky enough to get the pole both days (close on the short course) and ran closely with Tom in qualifying. His car and the Miata were VERY close on power and I would say we had a dead drag on the start on Sunday. His was a little better climbing the boot and the miata was a little better going down into the boot. I would say the cars are a wash and it was fun running with him.
What happend on Sunday was one of the cars was able to pull me 20-25 cars lengths on the back straight even when I had a good run on him. This made for some very interesting video. Both days I was under the track record in qualifying (Tom was also for the short course)so I was getting out of the turns well that lead onto the straights so this was frustrating but hey I guess that is racing. ITA is not my playground so I am just saying what I saw and what happend. I know the cars are stronger in different spots but that is a lot of car lengths.
I have to admit starting on the front row with the ITS cars in the first race was very strange and I was not really looking forward to the land rush when the flag waved. Anyway, it was fun and I hope Ray and Tom making it back down to Summit soon. Awesome start on Sunday Ray...wow that was nice.
Ken
I was lucky enough to get the pole both days (close on the short course) and ran closely with Tom in qualifying. His car and the Miata were VERY close on power and I would say we had a dead drag on the start on Sunday. His was a little better climbing the boot and the miata was a little better going down into the boot. I would say the cars are a wash and it was fun running with him.
What happend on Sunday was one of the cars was able to pull me 20-25 cars lengths on the back straight even when I had a good run on him. This made for some very interesting video. Both days I was under the track record in qualifying (Tom was also for the short course)so I was getting out of the turns well that lead onto the straights so this was frustrating but hey I guess that is racing. ITA is not my playground so I am just saying what I saw and what happend. I know the cars are stronger in different spots but that is a lot of car lengths.
I have to admit starting on the front row with the ITS cars in the first race was very strange and I was not really looking forward to the land rush when the flag waved. Anyway, it was fun and I hope Ray and Tom making it back down to Summit soon. Awesome start on Sunday Ray...wow that was nice.
Ken
RP Performance
New member
Rabbit05
New member
Hey does anyone have any ITC times and results for both days? I am p****d that i missed one of my favorite weeknds of the year... but with George B. and his oil buddies ripping off the common man, I couldnt afford to go. I'll see you all at the NARRC for sure.
John VanDenburgh
ITC Rabbit05
John VanDenburgh
ITC Rabbit05
Racerboy03
New member
So what were the actual results from both days in ITA? I take it Windell won at least one of the days? Wish I could have been there(damn classes!).
Hope to see you guys at Summit in Oct!
-Mark C.
Hope to see you guys at Summit in Oct!
-Mark C.
tdw6974
Member
Saturday ITA 1st Ray Chee, 2nd Larry Hebeler Jr, 3rd Mark Connolly, 12 lap race Windell completed 7, Tom 4 (Oil Pan leak I think) 55 Staters, Sunday 17 lap race 47 Starters 1st Windell Holmes, 2nd Ken Zalner (Brett's ITA Miata which is available for purchase) and 3rd was Tom Blaney. Windell set a new track record of 1:30:131. These are from the official race results.
I was in the spec miata race the weekend, but watched the ITA/ITS race. It was pretty bad out there in ITA. The integra driven by Windell <_< was going up the esses got stuck behind the miata of Zalner, had to hit his brakes, got back on the gas and cleared the miata of Zalner by about 15 car lengths before the bus stop. The ITS Integra GSR couldn't even come close to putting that king of distance on Zalner.
I used to run an ITA CRX in 2001, came up to do the July double. Got see what the New York region was all about. Windell "my buddy"
in a CRX at the time was on my bumper going into turn one. I looked in my mirror before I was going up the esses he was at least 10 car lengths behind me, all of the sudden my car got really loud, but wait it's not my car it's Windell he back and clears me by about 3 car lengths before braking at 500 ft for the bus stop and parking in the turns.
I also need to clarify my car did end up winning that race. It had a 2 race old King Motorsports engine, dyno-ed at 124hp to the wheels on a dyno-pac dyno under the hood. The way Windell passed me he had to have at least 20hp on me. Everyone asks where he was when they ran the long course? Too many turns, slows him down a lot.
I will end my little rant with this, in the DC region if someone is cheating and it's that obvious. The class as a whole will agree to have that car looked at a little more carefully. Or send Windell to the Puppy Farm with Bob Stretch and his 11 to 1 compression "spec miata" from the ARRC.
I used to run an ITA CRX in 2001, came up to do the July double. Got see what the New York region was all about. Windell "my buddy"
in a CRX at the time was on my bumper going into turn one. I looked in my mirror before I was going up the esses he was at least 10 car lengths behind me, all of the sudden my car got really loud, but wait it's not my car it's Windell he back and clears me by about 3 car lengths before braking at 500 ft for the bus stop and parking in the turns. I also need to clarify my car did end up winning that race. It had a 2 race old King Motorsports engine, dyno-ed at 124hp to the wheels on a dyno-pac dyno under the hood. The way Windell passed me he had to have at least 20hp on me. Everyone asks where he was when they ran the long course? Too many turns, slows him down a lot.
I will end my little rant with this, in the DC region if someone is cheating and it's that obvious. The class as a whole will agree to have that car looked at a little more carefully. Or send Windell to the Puppy Farm with Bob Stretch and his 11 to 1 compression "spec miata" from the ARRC.
lateapex911
Super Moderator
Tom, nothing new in this case, except Windell has found a way to make his grenade motors last a few laps longer before they ........grenade.
Windell is funny, as you pointed out, it's a cat and mouse game. In Atlanta, he was average on the straights at best.. hmmmmm, they take things apart down there, so you better not be running funny stuff in your heads....
Most times, I have watched him go down in flames or smoke or steam or a pool of oil on the side of the track.
Solutions? I know you won't like it, but of course, he has to be talked to. Maybe Richie should talk to him when he's taking a porta poddy break. Make sure Richie knows to tip door side down!
OK, kidding...kinda.
In the NER, at least in IT, he's the worst kept "secret" going...or I wouldn't be writing what I've written. If he isn't cheating, then he needs to go into business. You have to tear him down. He's blazing fast one day, blows up ALL the time, but is average on other days. All over the map that guy.
I know, you had a bad experience.....I've talked with some stewards that were there on that day, and the disgust in the way it played out is evident. I get the impression that it is now impossible for that result to replay.
The penalty was an absolute joke. High compression pistons, used to win races and set records, and a one race DQ??? A fiasco to say the least.
I think that that protest set waves thru the steward AND the race community, and I haven't heard on peep that thinks the result was fair or proper from either side.
I think that you won't see the same result, and that any protest will be handled more professionally, and that the punishment will be much more fitting of the crime, should the car be found illegal.
Think Windell reads the site??
Windell is funny, as you pointed out, it's a cat and mouse game. In Atlanta, he was average on the straights at best.. hmmmmm, they take things apart down there, so you better not be running funny stuff in your heads....
Most times, I have watched him go down in flames or smoke or steam or a pool of oil on the side of the track.
Solutions? I know you won't like it, but of course, he has to be talked to. Maybe Richie should talk to him when he's taking a porta poddy break. Make sure Richie knows to tip door side down!
OK, kidding...kinda.
In the NER, at least in IT, he's the worst kept "secret" going...or I wouldn't be writing what I've written. If he isn't cheating, then he needs to go into business. You have to tear him down. He's blazing fast one day, blows up ALL the time, but is average on other days. All over the map that guy.
I know, you had a bad experience.....I've talked with some stewards that were there on that day, and the disgust in the way it played out is evident. I get the impression that it is now impossible for that result to replay.
The penalty was an absolute joke. High compression pistons, used to win races and set records, and a one race DQ??? A fiasco to say the least.
I think that that protest set waves thru the steward AND the race community, and I haven't heard on peep that thinks the result was fair or proper from either side.
I think that you won't see the same result, and that any protest will be handled more professionally, and that the punishment will be much more fitting of the crime, should the car be found illegal.
Think Windell reads the site??
Tom, just a point of order: "the stewards" do not and will not police the class for legality. The tech team is primarily there to make sure the car's comply with safety regulations and to implement technical inspections upon request of the stewards, divisional administrators, and/or competitors in the form of a protest.
Like it or not, that's the way the system is designed in SCCA club racing for 99.99% of the events; the best (and sometimes only) way to compliance is via competitors protest.
Greg Amy
#33 ITA Nissan NX2000 (or so they tell me)
Divisional Tech Inspector
Bildon
New member
re: the cheating. I was VERY surprised to see the scales not be used this weekend. Was this true for all classes? 
Also, I suppose time prohibits a full, head off inspection/measurement of cars post race, but we must be able to come up with a compromise. Perhaps some sort of random "open" inspection period where top cars are taken from post qualifying impound to an area where the owner must put the car on display for peer review.
I envision a 1/2 hour mandatory period where an appointed SCCA Tech Inspector is on hand to hear complaints or submitted requests from (anonymous?) competitors. Those requests might be to remove the valve cover or various easily accessible covers (flywheel, oil pan, etc). All cars in this impound area should however, be checked for COMPRESSION !! This is so easy and is never done. If a group of one's peers see a compression # that is out of whack this should go a long way towards embarassing away some blatant cheating. I understand that cylinder pressure alone doesn't tell the whole story...but it must help deter... <_< Also every region should have a displacement pump... another very cheap and effective tool.
Could something like this be enforced upon IT classes on a "random" basis perhaps two or three events per year/ per series?
Also, I suppose time prohibits a full, head off inspection/measurement of cars post race, but we must be able to come up with a compromise. Perhaps some sort of random "open" inspection period where top cars are taken from post qualifying impound to an area where the owner must put the car on display for peer review.
I envision a 1/2 hour mandatory period where an appointed SCCA Tech Inspector is on hand to hear complaints or submitted requests from (anonymous?) competitors. Those requests might be to remove the valve cover or various easily accessible covers (flywheel, oil pan, etc). All cars in this impound area should however, be checked for COMPRESSION !! This is so easy and is never done. If a group of one's peers see a compression # that is out of whack this should go a long way towards embarassing away some blatant cheating. I understand that cylinder pressure alone doesn't tell the whole story...but it must help deter... <_< Also every region should have a displacement pump... another very cheap and effective tool.
Could something like this be enforced upon IT classes on a "random" basis perhaps two or three events per year/ per series?
Andy Bettencourt
Super Moderator
Could some events be deemed as 'complience' events? Compression checks for XXX classes to be named in impound, then a different set of classes the next event?
AB
AB
lateapex911
Super Moderator
Advertise it so the cheaters skip that event?
I prefer the surprise method myself.
(My theory is that a guy who DECIDES to cheat will also decide to avoid getting caught....we've seen cars change their performance overnight baased on protest threats, only to suddenly speed up at a later date. The guy who is the worst offender will attempt to slip thru the dragnet. On the other hand, having a random, but ever present threat that he might be nailed would do more, IMHO...)
John,
I really wish you had been able to make it. But I understand completely about the gas price thing! If I had not lucked into a full sponsorship, I wouldn't be racing at all!
I don't know what was so different, but my 2:28.228 on Saturday was almost 5 seconds a lap faster than I have ever done there! Last year, I was turning 2:32's with the same car. On Sunday, both Ed Funk and I got the short track record, I just got down about .3 more than he did. I ended up with a 1:37.372 (old one was 1:38.8??). At least that was only 1-2 seconds faster than my own previous fast lap! (Of course, the weather was different)
It would have been really interesting (at least to me) to see how much was the track, or if I actually got a little better, plus the track! (I am hoping it was the latter!
)Take care, and I hope to see you some next year!
Meg
PS - the results are up on mylaps.com now.
Oh! I know they pulled over 2-3 of them when they came off the track. They did it right on the front straight when that one car hit the tire wall (if it is what I think it was). I personally thought they waited until they got to the stopped car, but maybe not. My guess would be they got talked to, and came up with a somewhat valid response (pass the guy or hit him comes to mind) since there were no notes on the results about any penalties.
Meg
Rabbit05
New member
Meg,
Congrats on the lap record ! Both days ! Yeah i am loking forward to going next year , I might try to make it for the next one in October, but i have plans to do the Narrc runoffs. So with the entery fees at LRP being what they are its probably a long shopt to make the Glen too. Well it sounds like you had an awesome weekend. See ya soon if not definatly next year at the Fun One !
John VanDenburgh
ITC Rabbit 05
Congrats on the lap record ! Both days ! Yeah i am loking forward to going next year , I might try to make it for the next one in October, but i have plans to do the Narrc runoffs. So with the entery fees at LRP being what they are its probably a long shopt to make the Glen too. Well it sounds like you had an awesome weekend. See ya soon if not definatly next year at the Fun One !
John VanDenburgh
ITC Rabbit 05