Who won ? A B C S

Ding.
When I see a car I know is going slower I have to time my aproch to fit in a safe place . This may mean backing a little before the entry and faster out to over take the car. Now the slower driver "who I had a lot of experience with" must adjust a little as well. How do you think the Lemans guys do it.Racing to me is about driving well with others.It`s the challange of the drive.
Dong.
Scott Wish I had been there Haven CRX 09 ITA NER.
 
Greg - I agee and concede. I hope this discussion has provoked drivers to think this through a bit more than we have in the past. If so I think we have accomplished a lot. Thanks
Tim Klvana
ITC #11



[This message has been edited by Tkczecheredflag (edited August 10, 2004).]
 
Having been a back marker for most of my career, I am very experienced at being passed. Have I screwed up in the past and held a faster car up?? You bet!! I'm sure we have all done that at some point and time.

However, I am very aware of faster cars approaching. If I feel we are going to meet at the apex, I brake a little early and let him by under braking. If I can reach the apex without chopping, I stay on line and keep my foot on it.

I also like the idea of talking to the other driver after the race instead of using this forum to call him a jerk. How do you think you would react in the next race when the guy calling you a jerk was coming up fast during the race....... How would you react if the other driver talked to you in a nice friendly way after the race......

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Jeff L
#74 ITB GTi
 
I got to thinking about this more.......

It is always assumed that the slower car is in the wrong. I remember two years ago a very fast ITS RX7 took themselves out of the lead on a crazy pass
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!!(I held my line) We talked after, no hard feelings and you can bet that I will help him in a race any chance I get!!

I have been dive bombed in corners where if I held my line there would have been serious carnage. They assumed I would move off line so they could make the pass!!

Common sense goes a loooooong way.........
 
Jeff,
You brought up a good point. People definately remember how drivers have acted in the past and take that into consideration.

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Dave Gran
NER #13 ITA
'87 Honda Prelude
 
<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">However, I am very aware of faster cars approaching. If I feel we are going to meet at the apex, I brake a little early and let him by under braking. If I can reach the apex without chopping, I stay on line and keep my foot on it.</font>
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This is exactly what I was trying to explain. Great Job Jeff. It's how we all should drive.

Greg's is also right but he describes a different situation - a faster car APPROACHING a slower car at the apex. For my dollar, the faster car should be 'setting up' the slower car for a pass on exit - and the aforementioned predictibility will allow a safe and quick pass.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
ITS RX-7 & Spec Miata 1.6 (ITA project)
New England Region R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com
 
In my oponion, I truly believe that the slower car should drive the line as predictibly and as smoothly as possible, and let the faster car go around him/her. In a lot of race situations especially when there is a major disparity in speed, the faster driver (assume intelligent) should have already made a decision what he is going to do when he passes the slower driver in the corner. I normally assume that the slower driver is going to stay on his path, and that based on the speed that I am approaching him, I pretty much figured out where I will be when I pass him. If the slower driver makes an unplanned move than there will be a problem, because there won't be a whole lot of tire grip left for both drivers to readjust. The result is damaged cars and egos. Additionally especially in a close race between the faster driver and the fast car that is trying to pass him, the first of the two faster drivers will try and use the lapped car as part of his stratagy and will plan on that as part of the pass. So the slower lapped car now lets the first driver by but pulls up off the gas to be nice, and finds that the other faster drive just drilled him in the butt.

So my recommendation is two fold. First if you are being lapped, please drive your line keep your speed, and be preditictable. Second if your the faster car, keep in mind that this is a hobby, we all have to go to work on Monday, and Roger Penski is not watching your every move with pen and paper in hand.
 
When being lapped by faster cars (and smart drivers I trust) I try to leave room at the entrence under braking, at the Apex, or at the exit. It depends where I am being overtaken. I will go off line to help the faster car, if I know that my action is predictable.

I also try to give a point-by to let the driver know... Take me under braking, or take me on the exit.

The big thing I hate from a lapping car (the faster one) is when they pass you under braking then are a lot slower than you through the turn, Sometimes I just wish they would save that muscle for the streight especially if they are not safe enough driver to be passing in the turns... This seems to happen a lot with the ITS/ITB cars. I find it amaizing how much driver talent is different throughout the fields. You can tell a lot from seeing the drivers who can hold that momentum through the turns vs. someone just being able to point and shoot.

On the other side when lapping other cars I expect room, but I don't always get it. Many times I find the prime passing point to be under braking and through the apex. Some people might see it as a "Dive bomb" move but in my car I could easily go that fast without a problem through the turn.

Each time I have a close call I wonder to myself... was I (the passing car unpredictable) or is the slower car just clueless to their suroundings???

In any (every) case we should all be well aware of our suroundings and predictable.

Keep Safe;

Raymond
 
Ray, you mention "point By" brings to mind the IMSA drivers meeting at Watkins Glen when I was in the Tech office and could not get out for the drivers Meeting. In this particular event they were running ALL the classes together GTO GTU GTP as you can imagine there was huge difference in speeds ie Corvette GTP near 200 mph at end of the straight. Imsa wnated them to point the over taking car by and Dereck bell spoke up and said there in could be a problem as in European racing they would point to where they were going to get out of the way. This lead to some good natured name calling etc etc. but worked out well in the end when everyone decided to do the same. Most interesting race was a Firehawk 24 Hr when 139 cars started lot of broken/bent cars that year. Just some thoughts from an old timer
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I think point-bys are great!! To me it tells me he/she at least sees me and now I feel dare I say it....a little more comfortable...
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mike g.
 
Originally posted by RSTPerformance:
Predictability is great but not neccasarily the correct answer. If you are being lapped you should give a point by. If you are aware of your surroundings you would have most likly seen a pass flag and you definetly should have seen the car approaching. If you neglect to give a pass by you are not racing safely. By not giving a point bye you have done the worst possible thing to the overtaking driver.... you have given them the realization that you may not have any idea you are behind them. That creates an unsafe environment and makes the overtaking driver decide the end result and all he can do is hope and pray that it all works out in the end. Being predictable is not a safe driver... yes it makes the overtaking drivers decision easier but not any safer. GIVE POINT BYES!

I have been fortunet enough to get the opportunity to lap other vehicles. I find the biggest issue that I have is that the driver in front has no clue about there surroundings. This past weekend for example I was the car in second place therefor the second overtaking car. The first issue I saw was only one point bye all weekend. The only car to give a point bye in the ITB/SM race/practice/qualifying was the black ITB BMW. The other obsurd thing was that a lap car would be overtaken under braking by the lead car then move over and stay on line by slamming the door shut on me to make there apex. For god sake look in your mirrors if one car is lapping you and another is 2 car lengths back let them both bye! A race is completly ruined when lap cars do this. It is very unsafe and inconsiderate.

So I thank the Black BMW for the point bye and most importantly for being a safe driver. Your the only dafe driver that I saw that I lapped.... so anyone that got passed and had a blue pass flag or that got lapped by the blue/silver audi please be safer, more awaire, and more considerate.

Thank you
Stephen

PS I apologize if I didn't give anyone else a point bye and feel free to let me kow during the weekend if I don't. Unless of course you are racing with me
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I have learned a lot about being a slower car now that I am a faster one.
Click to expand...
 
I'm taking up a collection from the group to buy Stephen and Raymond their own IT.com login accounts. Who's in?

wink.gif
 
Ah, but the big question is what would the other name be? RST Audi? Is this setting up a race for the RST performance name at the Oct. race? Winner takes it?

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Dave Gran
NER #13 ITA
'87 Honda Prelude
 
Wow this thread turned out to be very informative. Being new to this whole IT thing, and just having gone through a school in February, I made it a habit to use point-byes... especially since I was in the slowest class running. (IT-7 - GT1).

I've also found some relation to the idea of looking, ie, being aware of who's not only behind me, but who's in front. I found myself doing something that was mentioned... kind of helping the timing of a pass.

IF I knew some of the hot and heavy T-1 cars were approaching and they were going to meet me at the beginning or at the approach of a turn, sure, I'd stay wide and let them by... they were already there. Partially because they had the speed and particially because I may have let off a little early or whatever.

Having read Greg's post helps clarify something for me too. When it is close or the speed variation isn't as great, staying on the racing line and being predictable is helping me to understand when exactly to do what.

I also, believe it or not, did some passing. I found out about that timing thing and trying to set up a pass on exit... late apex, brake early, gas early, etc.

I think the part that I'm going to have to work on is passing under braking. It seems to be the least confidence inspiring type of pass... or maybe better put, the pass that requires trust of both drivers.

Please keep this thead going! I'm learning tons and hope to be a predictable and safe ITA driver soon.

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-dave
8)
Got Photos?... post 'em here: http://y3k.shacknet.nu:31338/gallery/
 
I currently race in Showroom Spec Miata, though I originally intended to race in ITB (hence the registration on this site in 2001). Of course, the points we're discussing here are applicable in every class.

Now having some meager experience (two race weekends), I can chime in, for what it's worth.

I wholeheartedly agree with the comments about being predictable. Just this past weekend, I was nearly the victim of a lapped driver moving over on me at the entrance to No Name. Despite the fact I completely filled his mirrors through the Esses, and he got the blue flag at 5, he still moved over on me, just as I was moving right to pass. I had to back out of the pass until he realized he was getting passed. Contact was a bit too close for comfort. I just don't think he was checking his mirrors.

It amazes me that some drivers don't check their mirrors on a regular basis to check who's coming up on them. I always try to keep tabs where I am in relation to the cars ahead and behind me, and try to check my mirrors at the exit of each corner (assuming the next corner isn't coming up too quickly).

I'm also a big fan of giving a point by, which adds to my predictability for the passing car. The last thing I want to do is ruin another guy's fast lap in a qualifying session or his race.

I paddocked next to Stephen and Raymond this past weekend, and was surprised to hear so many of the (generally newer) Spec Miata drivers didn't appear to be aware of the cars around them, much less preparing to be passed by faster traffic, or giving a point by.

Stephen and Raymond: good paddocking next to you guys this weekend. You guys ran an impressive race. I'll see you at the NARRC Runoffs.
 
As a guy who is usually doing the passing I must say that point bys are very important. It tells the overtaking car that you know they are there however this is only applicable if you are lapping someone because no one in their right mind is going to give up a position with a point by.

My general approach when over taking a lapped car or a car I am re passing because I was stupid enough to take myself on an off course excursion is this, LRP uphill, west bend, downhill if I am not MORE THAN 1/2 up the other drivers door before the braking zone I will back out and pull behind them, other corners you do not need to be as far up.

If I am in a battle with another ITS car at the front things change, every situation is different but I will press the pass a bit more if I am being pressed from behind and in this case I need more help from the slower car.

I thankfully haven't had too many situations passing cars, however I am the faster ITS Rx-7 from Jeff Lawton's earlier post. I thought he was leaving room on the outside leading to No Name turns out he wasn't, I took myself out of the lead and learned something from the experience. Hopefully we all learn something from every situation we encounter on the track this is what makes us better drivers.



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Nick Leverone
04 ITS Mazda Rx-7
www.flatout-motorsports.com
 
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