Z32 300ZX NA in ITS

S

SpudZ

New member
Hey All,
I am the admin over at Zdriver.com and was wondering if anyone has tried to get a Z32
into ITS. I thought I read somewhere that they were to compeitive for the class, but with the
325is basically taking over in most regions it seems like an alternative would be nice.

I currently have a forum set up over at Zdriver.com for Z car racers . The thought was to get most of the computer freindly racers to a central location.

Thanks for any information,
Mike
Zdriver.com
StrictlyZ.com
 
I'm not sure but the car is heavier than the Z31 model and sports the same size brakes as the later special edition Z31. I'm sure the rear suspension is a much better setup but weight will probably be the big issue.
 
<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">...wondering if anyone has tried to get a Z32 into ITS.</font>
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Excuse my ignorance, but is that the 1990-1991-vintage non-turbo 300ZX? I'd love to see that car classified into ITS. It was an excellent Showroom Stock A car and was good competition for the BMW 3-series there. Given the direction that SCCA has chosen for ITS (BMW 325, Porsche 944S, 911) I think the 1990 300ZX is a good fit.

If there's other interest in classifying that car into ITS I'll support it with a request of my own. Then, I'll build one.

GregA
 
E. Radatz Motorsports here in Atlanta tried to get the Z32 300ZX classified back in the late '90s, but SCCA said "no". Something about competition potential. They have since talked to SCCA again about it and still get some resistance, but are then quickly reminded of the BMW being classified.

The only real drawback I have heard to the car being in ITS is that the brakes might not be up to the task. Of course, the same thing has been said about the 240Z and a couple of people have figured this out.

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Bob Pinkowski
Atlanta Region SCCA
OPM Motorsports
ITS Honda Prelude
 
The Z32 NA from 90-94 is what I had in mind. The NA one of course
smile.gif
. I haven't researched them yet, but what I have heard is that the 90-91 came with the lightweight aluminum calipers and these tended to heat up fast. In 92 they went to
a heavier cast set up. It does produce around 220 HP in the NA trim though compared to the Z31's 165 - 170.

The car is heavy it can be found in the rare slick top style ( no T top ).

I am going to start a thread on Zdriver.com to see what I come up with. I will also post to the Z32 guys and the Zhome mailing list. I figure with member numbers some of the current rules could be changed a bit to fit some of the Z cars better. The Bimmers in our region are spending, or out performing the 240Z. Alot of the 240Z's are showing up on Ebay now , because they are not as competitive anymore.

Thanks all,
Mike
Zdriver.com
 
ALthough I am a large supporter of the Z31 in ITS, if the Z32 has more potential, than it has no place in ITS. It is frustating enough to chase competition when the cars you are trying to get closer to are at least only moving forward at the same rate you are. Changing the potential of the cars that are in the class is actually worse than makeing class changes that allow new mods. Suddenly you have a car that used to be competative but is now never going be able to catch up. This is exactly what happens in showroom stock - a new model comes out and last years cars will never match it. Most IT guys can't or won't afford to be changing cars that often. Good racing only comes when there is a good group of cars that run at similar lap times, otherwise its like running a time trial for 20 laps.

If the Z32 makes around 220hp, it would need to weigh well over 3200# to be in the same neighbor hood of weight to power ratio that the other ITS cars are in (stock HP vrs IT min weight). Who cares about brakes, a car that heavy will never keep up on 225-50's which is about as wide as you can go on a 7" wheel.
 
I agree on the tire size. It would never make it on that small of tires. In fact the car came with 7.5 " stock. I did a brief check on spec on the Z32 NA and all I found was the turbo specs.
It weighed 3500 pounds in 90' and gained weight from there.

I am surprised you are able to get the Z31 to handle on 225's .

I did find an old article on competing in a Z31 . http://www.georgiazclub.com/tips/ztech/zvsz/zvsz.htm

I will post the link to this article on the Zdriver forums. Wasn't sure that many people actually ran a Z31.

MMiskoe,
If you could stop by the website and upload some pictures of your car and your results .
That would be great !! We have a huge Z31 following . http://zdriver.com/forums/

Thanks,
Mike

[This message has been edited by SpudZ (edited May 25, 2003).]
 
<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">...if the Z32 has more potential, than it has no place in ITS....Changing the potential of the cars that are in the class is actually worse...</font>
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This is a fact of IT life. It happens constantly and it happens every year. If we are to attempt to avoid such changes then we'd have to roll back all car classifications subsequent to the 1984 rulebook. Examples abound: E36 BMW, Porsche 944S, 911x, 280Z/X, RX-7, and that's only in ITS. The only class that I can think of that this has not happened to in the last few years is ITC.

SCCA has apparently taken the position that classifying higher-performance cars within ITS, and possibly filtering others downwards, is acceptable and desired. Therefore, we should call a spade a spade and support it.

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">...it would need to weigh well over 3200# to be in the same neighborhood...will never keep up on 225-50's...</font>
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So be it. That's what makes this idea so intriguing. For my part, the following is in tomorrow's email and Tuesday's USPS mail.

http://www.gatm.com/cars/nx2000/ITS300ZX.pdf

GregA
 
GregA,
Let me know if you need any help on this . I can get some of the Z community to rally around the request.

Mike
Zdriver.com
 
As long as the Z community are card carrying members of the SCCA and plan to build them, THEM have them rally.

Or - "If I could build my 1992 Z into an ITS car, I would hoing and race". Seems weird but otherwise the requests have no merit.

I would love to see more cars but with that much power I would expect the weight to make things real difficult in Road Racing.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com
 
The problem I have with that is it is a quantum leap over (stock numbers anyway) the HP figures of the top ITS cars now, none of which exceed 180 hp or so. A 40 hp bump stock too me seems like SCCA got this one right: too much competition potential in this car right now for S.

What it also means, I think, is that it is time for a general classification, with many of the slower S cars getting bumped down or put into their own group. I certainly understand why it is time to classify the N/A 2nd Gen 300ZX, but I just don't see a "fair" place to put it right now. So, with the Comp Board's recent expressed desire to take a look at competition adjustments, maybe they'll see the light and bump the 125 to 150 hp cars down out of S.
 
No ITS cars with over 180 hp? My Prelude is around 200 hp, Z31 300ZX is looking at 200 hp and the 240Z is probably 180+ hp these days. Don't know about the BMWs.

------------------
Bob Pinkowski
Atlanta Region SCCA
OPM Motorsports
ITS Honda Prelude
 
The numbers I've seen advertised on the BMW's for sale is 240-250 at the crank. I think they are the only cars in ITS that can come anywhere near that mark right now. That's why the Z32 looks like a good alternative, with the IT mods, they ought to just about equal the BMW's and their weight should come out to almost an equal as well.

The best ITS 240 motors might be getting 220 at the crank, but that remains to be seen. And those motors will set you back a lot in the budget.
 
Well Chet, I said might, and I didn't say they were 100% legal either.

I know of at least 5 240's here in the DC Region that are sitting in garages becuase the drivers just don't want to spend the money on them, they were top ten cars all, and now for the same investment, would be top 20 cars.

The BMW's in the DC Region are turning times that equal and at times have bettered the lap times of the EP cars, even the top flight National cars. Yet, the rest of the ITS field is still running within one second of what they were back in 94 when I ran in ITS.

So, in order to bring these cars out of mothballs, what is a good solution?

Or do the true Nissan enthusiasts have no place to go anymore for a "reasonable race budget" in the SCCA?
 
Bob, I meant stock hp numbers, to use as a baseline since the various motors in ITS differ in how they respond to the mods allowed by the ITCS (i.e. Mazda, big gains from exhaust, BMW apparent big gains from the "complete package," Porsche fewer gains).

Are there any other ITS cars with STOCK hp number at or over 200hp? I don't think so, but I may be wrong. Seems that the Alfa 3.0 Milano, the 325 and the 944s are at the top at around 180. So, it seems to me that dropping a car with a stock 220 hp motor into the mix would not be prudent.
 
Stock....okay, gotcha. Ya didn't say that in your original post
wink.gif


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Bob Pinkowski
Atlanta Region SCCA
OPM Motorsports
ITS Honda Prelude
 
I have spoken with some one in the know about the SCCA comp board. He suggested this approach: ask the comp. board why the Toyota Supra (86.5-87) is allowed to compete with a 2954cc DOHC engine, and the 300ZX is not allowed with a 2960cc DOHC. He thinks that is your best shot. But be prepared to the 300ZX may have to carry the same weight as the Supra, 3380 lbs. He also suggested that the front Skyline brakes be included in the request. Unfortunately, his attitude was that the Comp. board would turn down the 300ZX, because it has in the recent past. (last coulple of years)

He also suggested that the letter to the comp board be written in a diplomatic fashion, since trying to crash the gates at the comp. board will force them to shut even tighter.
 
Originally posted by js:
He also suggested that the letter to the comp board be written in a diplomatic fashion, since trying to crash the gates at the comp. board will force them to shut even tighter.
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Always the prudent approach to take...

Using this example, the BMW, and any number of other cars that fit this general catagory, it suprises me that there hasn't been a more concerted effort to push for another IT class that is ABOVE ITS... All the efforts seem to focus on the IT2 concept of stuffing one in between ITA and ITS, when what is obviously needed is one above ITS to handle the larger 6-cyl. cars...

If someone was willing to start the push, I'm certain the CB and Advisory Committee would be willing to at least take it into consideration...
wink.gif




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Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Auburn, WA
ITS '97 240SX
240_OR_041203_thumb.jpg
 
Or maybe we need to re-align some of the classes based on the ages of the cars that are competing, kinda like having a class for all the "vintage" iron out there sitting in garages not being used....
 
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