Air intake heat shields

bill
i had been thinking about useing a narrower radiator and the ducting the resulting gap back to the carb. then they added the above sighted rule, I believe making that illegal.
I was going to fit an alternate radiator and use the resulting hole to duct air. how is that different for the case apr67 sights
dick patullo
 
Originally posted by downingracing:
I've got a 94 Civic EX (now an ITA car!). I run a short ram intake. ... I also have ducting running from the bottom of the car up to the existing hole into the engine bay.
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I don't know, Matt - if the ductin and that short ram aren't connected, then I don't think you can use the "everything in front of the metering device" allowance. Maybe they are all one unit and I'm misunderstanding.

K

PS - I'm really thrilled that you finally get to be an ITA car!
 
<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">I think the rule has defined what we can do, and as Geo says, \"If it says you can, you bloody well can\" (regardless of the supposed 'intent')</font>[/b]
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Attaboy Jake!

You tell 'em!
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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
 
Originally posted by Jeremy Billiel:

Here is another interesting question. When I look at this rule, what happens if you car does not have a meetering device in the intake. For example: Honda/Acura's do not use mass airflow sensors in the piping. I believe they use a map sensor instead, but its in the TB. Does this mean my intake is open to do whatever I want?
Click to expand...

You look at the REST of the rule that says if you don't have a "metering device", you can substitute what's in front of the TB (or at least, I think that's what it says- It's a *_VERY_* poorly written sentence).

It says you can, so you... well, you know
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Matt Green
"Ain't nothin' improved about Improved Touring..."
 
I'm really curious about the ducting from the engine bay to the air intake area. I'm still am not totally sure if that would be legal (as Ray or Stephen discussed in the other topic). If it is, I too would like do this.

Ray or Stephen, just curious. Do you just have a hose hanging down picking up the air? I would imagine some type of scoop would be pushing things but just giving some more thought to it.

My next question is how much do you think is gained by running a hose to the air intake area? If it is really minimal, it doesn't seem like it would be worth having to worry about inspectors giving me a hard time about it. I'd hate to get protested about something as silly as a ducting hose.

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Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si
 
Originally posted by Knestis:
I don't know, Matt - if the ductin and that short ram aren't connected, then I don't think you can use the "everything in front of the metering device" allowance. Maybe they are all one unit and I'm misunderstanding.

K

PS - I'm really thrilled that you finally get to be an ITA car!
Click to expand...

Kirk,

I can't wait for ITA! It should be a BLAST!

As far as the ducting of air, the original configuration used a hose thru that opening to the resonator box for extra volume. The system didn't source air from outside the engine compartment, but it did exit the engine compartment. I do believe in the great phrase: IDSYCYC. And it says you can. By allowing your intake to be 'free'. (As long as no other rules are broken, like cutting holes for ducting, I don't see any issue with it. My Tech. guy didn't have an issue with it either...)

If someone would like to protest me, I'd be happy to appeal (if necessary) to get a clarification from Topeka.
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Matt Downing
ITS Honda Civic EX (soon to be ITA!)
Ohio Valley Region, SCCA
www.downingracing.com
 
Essentially, it is a "shelf" that projects out from the bottom of an airdam. Often it is attached,and therefor integral with the airdam.

In general, the result is that it increases the effective downforce of the airdam, by decreasing the amount of air spilling under the car, and therefore decreases parasitic drag of the undercarriage, which is an unseen, but major factor in the overall drag picture.

In IT, any splitter is fine, as long as it is part of the airdam, and abides by the airdam requirements for height and projection from the cars body. As such, most IT splitters use airdams that are somewhat recessed from the absolute leading edge of the car, to increase the splitters effect.

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
 
Splitters can also increase the airflow into the cooling system - important for some cars.

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Marty Doane
ITS RX-7 #13
CenDiv WMR
 
If you want an excellent explanation that is technically correct, includes some technical info, but doesn't overwhelm even my little monkey brain, get your hands on the November 2004 issue of Racecar Engineering. There is an article about a CFD (computational fluid dynamics) study by Advantage CFD (owned by the BAR F1 team). It's a great article. It even had good pictures that illustrate what is going on quite well.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
 
Originally posted by gran racing:

Ray or Stephen, just curious. Do you just have a hose hanging down picking up the air? I would imagine some type of scoop would be pushing things but just giving some more thought to it.

My next question is how much do you think is gained by running a hose to the air intake area? If it is really minimal, it doesn't seem like it would be worth having to worry about inspectors giving me a hard time about it. I'd hate to get protested about something as silly as a ducting hose.

Click to expand...

Question #1:
Our airbox is designed with 2 hoses entering it from the bottom. 1 hose goes through a hole in the fender that is aproximatly 2 inches in diameter behind the bumper cover. the other one ends near the header. I took the hose that goes to the fender and made it larger.... about 3 inches I think. I only made it larger where the flexible hose was NOT the plastic piece that goes through the fender. I left the plastic peice stock, the fender stock and I added nothing outside the fender. The only reason it is larger is because I needed to replace the hose and I purchased dryer vent hose. (Cheap) The second hose simply goes up and into the void (or area) behind the headlight. It is not butted up to the headlight nor is it butted up to any grills. It simply sits attached by a bracket in the open in the middle of the engine bay. the only reason I did this was to stay away form the hot air on the header. Nothing has scoops of any type to get more air it's jsut dead end hoses.

From my interpretation it is completly legal. The first hose is essentially stock and gets air from the stock location the second hose is legal becasue it doesn't leave the engine bay, it doesn't "get air" from outside the engine bay (so it's not ram air). You said... "I'd hate to get protested about something as silly as a ducting hose." Me too but you'll never get a straight answer! I see nothing wrong with this but again it's my interpretation.. now you see why I was frustrated when I inquired about it and got no answer since nowone has any clue on what the rules actually are nor the authority to explain them.

Question #2: Does it help.
I doubt it. I doubt that it does anything. I only did it because it was easy, cheaper than stock replacement stuff that isn't made anymore, and people spend money on air intakes claiming they make the car better so I figured I would do something that looks like I am trying
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It makes me feel like I have a faster car. And besides it's nice to dream that all those little insignificant things make my car "super fast" but then again that's all dreams and in reality I don't think it does anything.

I have no evidence of anything because I will never pay money to use a Dino. It's a waist of money, At least in my mind... I would rather race in another race than have a chart that says I have this much tourqe and HP. If I know than I am either going to get depressed when I loose or get this need for more HP and the lack of HP will be an excuse for loosing!

Hope this clarifies everything for you.

Stephen
 
Just trying to get some inexpensive ideas for my car. Did you use the dryer duct hosing for your brakes? Or is it necessary to purchase the more expensive "brake ducting"?

Thanks.

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Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si
 
Stephen, within your post second above the stuff your talking about is GOOD head food. If the head feels GOOD you'll be faster.

BUT, IMHJ the Dyno tuned motor relative to air qualitys is a BEST base line to track tune knowing the air qualitys. The Dyno takes out the varaibles of being on the track. For example racing in the CenDiv in the hot humid summer (95* with moistuer haning in the air) is one thing & racing in the CenDiv in the fall (45* with zip moisture) is quite another thing.

Now for some personal head food for me. Has anyone viewed a induction tube/system (AEM, K&N filters with proven addvantages) like the ricers use on their newer cars for a 4 barrel Niki on a 1st gen RX-7 12A ?

Have Fun
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David
 
Ah yes, I totally agree (as I'm re-reading speed secrets 1 & 2 which goes into this topic).

David - if it's head food then I've heard the one on your car is the best on out on the market.
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Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si
 
>> Question #2: Does it help. I doubt it. I doubt that it does anything.

>> Has anyone viewed a induction tube/system (AEM, K&N filters with proven addvantages) like the ricers use

You guys NEED to get to a dyno. All this guessing is really a waste of time.

We noticed intake temps on our stock airbox were increasing up to 15 degrees after a few dyno runs. The stock airbox while flowing rather well was getting heak soaked after a while. It would cool down rather quickly but when pulling air through it at 6000-7000 RPMs for "long pulls" the box became noticably HOT to the touch.

http://www.bildon.com/racing/images/media/.../DynoDay001.wmv

We took a Honda cold air intake system and cut it to fit our Corrado. Temps dropped drastically and stayed down. Intake air velocity also improved.

Result?
5 real, consistently measurable HP.

Get a smooth intake tube with the largest low restriction filter you can fit and then build an insulated airbox around it. The more volume in the box thes less heat soak will affect it during long pulls. Find a legal way to duct cool air to the box.



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Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport
Volkswagen Racing Equipment
## 2003 ITB NYSRRC Champs ##
 
***Get a smooth intake tube with the largest low restriction filter you can fit and then build an insulated airbox around it. The more volume in the box thes less heat soak will affect it during long pulls. Find a legal way to duct cool air to the box.***

Bill, I have an understanding of what you say. My question about induction tube/system like the ricers (& others) use is asked because I have not viewed any Regional or National 1st gen RX-7 12A Niki carbed racers using induction tubes. To your thought process or knowledge is there an advantage or disadvantage using a tube with a 4 barrel Niki? & neither AEM or K&N has anything tested for the 1st gen RX-7.

Your site would not open for me. (Edit: After posting this message I tried a second time & your site opened.)

Have Fun
wink.gif

David



[This message has been edited by ddewhurst (edited January 13, 2005).]
 
Originally posted by Gregg:
What is on the other side of that hole in front of the wheel does not pick up "underside cooler air." It leads to a resonator box that effectively increases the volume of the air box (and makes the street car quieter). It is a closed system with the only inlet being inside the engine bay along the top of the radiator as you described.
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I need to clarify. If the "air intake" is free to modify then I can remove the air resonator thus leaving an open air intake pipe that is exterior of the engine bay. So, the stock system "does" have an air intake pipe exterior of the engine bay. Then I can install a piece of cheese cloth over that end of the pipe can't I?

And if so, the cheese cloth is in fact an air filter. So, if I can install a cheese cloth air filter on the end of this pipe, then why can I install a K&N air filter to this pipe?
 
Originally posted by racer-025:
So, if I can install a cheese cloth air filter on the end of this pipe, then why can I install a K&N air filter to this pipe?
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Simple. Because then you don't have the air intake source within the engine compartment or stock location. If that fiter is within the engine bay I'd think you're legal. If your chesse cloth is mounted on the wheel well-side of that hole (or hence your K&N) then it is not in the engine bay or stock location. Remember, there is only *one* stock location. Remember, with a stock configuration the only source is the opening of that pipe that runs along the radiator. In a stock configuration the resonator box exists and air from under the fender does not enter the intake tract. No US CRX's came from the factory with the resonator box absent.

As a wise sage once told me, it's legal until you're protested. Ever run the MARRS series?

[This message has been edited by Gregg (edited January 17, 2005).]
 
Gregg,

I think we do have a legitimate argument here. It definitely says that I can remove the resonator. So, if thats all I do, then indeed what is left is a factory air intake exterior of the engine bay.

I guess we won't know for sure until someone gets protested. I think it could go either way...

No, I have not run in MARRS. I have been racing IT in Atlantic Canada for 13 years. This year we are planning on doing a few SCCA events. NHIS double for sure.

www.geocities.com/mcnuttracing/
 
Originally posted by racer-025:
Gregg,

I think we do have a legitimate argument here. It definitely says that I can remove the resonator. So, if thats all I do, then indeed what is left is a factory air intake exterior of the engine bay.

I guess we won't know for sure until someone gets protested. I think it could go either way...
Click to expand...

Hopefully someone will. That's just tortured. The rule is pretty specific... Stock location or under the hood. I fail to see what it stock about it.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
 
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