Contact impound

ulfelder said:
I want to like this idea, but ...

Take as an example an SM race at the Glen. It's entirely possible to do a little consensual bump-drafting with 5 or 6 different cars during a 9-lap race. No big deal, thumbs-up all around, you push me toward the Bus Stop one lap, I push you the next ...

Is a driver expected to fill out a form for each incident of contact? Hell, how would you remember all the car numbers?
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I thought we were talking about metal to metal contact?

For example if Steve and I give each other a push (not in a braking zone), Steve and I would be ok with that.

If Steve and I rubbed door handles, chances are the two of us would talk about it anyway to see how that happened and apologize.

-Vick
 
For example if Steve and I give each other a push (not in a braking zone), Steve and I would be ok with that.
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This has been a big discussion in the past especially on the SM board. Have I ever done it, absolutely. However it's not technically legal per the GCR. It's more of a regional and being smart on where it's done.

Would you do it right before start/finish at the Glen where all flaggers can easily see you do it?
 
gran racing said:
This has been a big discussion in the past especially on the SM board. Have I ever done it, absolutely. However it's not technically legal per the GCR. It's more of a regional and being smart on where it's done.

Would you do it right before start/finish at the Glen where all flaggers can easily see you do it?
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I tried really hard in July on the pit straight at WGI with Paul Curran....just couldn't quite get there. Starter was lookin' at us every time we came through.
 
Good idea notwithstanding, no one has still really said what the purpose is. Are we assuming that people will race "better" because otherwise they might have to do some ...*gasp*... paperwork after a race? Again, I think it is a great idea if used to reprimand and document the guilty, not just to assign busywork. If someone keeps a spreadsheet of the info from past forms at the track and uses it to punish repeat/aggregious offenders, then sure.

Also, bump drafting in SM is not M2M, it's P2P. :D
 
It's not about busy work, but forcing people to be more accountable.

I think it's a good idea. Regarding providing some additional time to cool off, I also agree but drivers could still report to this impound first, then be required to come back after reviewing video and speaking with other people.
 
team-gpracing said:
If someone keeps a spreadsheet of the info from past forms at the track and uses it to punish repeat/aggregious offenders, then sure.
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No can do. It won't and should not matter how many times your name appears in that spreadsheet -- if none of the individual incidents resulted in the SOMs or CS officially finding you at fault, then you weren't at fault. If you weren't at fault, then it has no value in determining the punishment for the current infraction. Even if you were at fault, it bears no value in determining the punishment for the current infraction unless the driver is on probation.

You want to reduce the incidence of contact? Then grow a set, throw paper and hope that the SOMs become vertebrates and assign at least a reprimand (1 Point on your license).
 
what Dave said.
Every region has their 'frequent offenders', yet there's no paper trail since it's usually minor contact and often considered a racing incident. But if you have one driver with 2-3 racing incidents per weekend, their file will eventually get thick enough to become obvious.

The recordkeeping behind the contact reports is what this whole concept revolves around, and that's the big grey area that would/should/could be left up to each region. "Must be reported" and "must take action" are two completely different things.
 
I think that the accumulated body of "evidence" potentially serves as the context for any action that might be levied, not as "proof" that someone is guilty of something. It tracks patterns of behavior that can then alert folks - drivers and officials alike - that they should pay attention to an individual, rather than just assuming there's nothing wrong...

K
 
gran racing said:
It's not about busy work, but forcing people to be more accountable.
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So by making people write down how they think the other guy caused contact is being more accountable?

You don't need to make a gentleman and good driver "more accountable", they already are....because they're gentleman (no offense intended ladies). And forcing a "multiple offender" to fill out a form surely isn't going to make them care about not causing more crashes. The "accountability" in question shouldn't be in the physical writing of the form, but in the (potential) action that is taken after it is written. That's all I'm sayin'.

I just want to make sure that the forms get filed away and put to good use, not just scribbled down and tossed.

In regard to the cool off period, how do you make sure that the driver comes back and actually fills it out?
 
As far as a cool off time! If a guys pissed he's gonna go find the other driver asap. Would it not be better to have that happen where it could be monitored?:(
 
gran racing said:
This has been a big discussion in the past especially on the SM board. Have I ever done it, absolutely. However it's not technically legal per the GCR. It's more of a regional and being smart on where it's done.

Would you do it right before start/finish at the Glen where all flaggers can easily see you do it?
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I have done it there, yes. Also on the front straight at Thunderbolt and LRP......no one said I was intelligent.However I have only ever given a bump to guys who asked for it.

That being said, I have learned that if I'm at someone's bumper just before start finish, I may be able to pull a pass off, so why am I going to give my speed to someone else there when I can use it to make up a position? There probably is more bump drafting in SM than is necessary.

-Vick
 
ner88 said:
As far as a cool off time! If a guys pissed he's gonna go find the other driver asap. Would it not be better to have that happen where it could be monitored?:(
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And we could charge admission for the really good exchanges.

Seriously -- Having observed and facilitated these discussions, I think this is a great idea. Any info received should be used by the Chief Steward and the Chairman of the SOM to monitor trends. If anything is serious enough to require action, then it should be taken immediately. If someone is spending more time filling out reports than driving on the track, then it might be time for both the competitors and the official to write paper on that individual. And maybe suggest a new hobby for them.

I do like the idea of the simpler form.
 
[taking it a bit far]
How's this?

first time contact = check box form
second time to fill out form= full written description form
third time= full written description of incident, AND signed by the person/people you contacted
fourth time = have the guy you contacted fill out the form for you, you sign it.
fifth time = write it in blood
[/too far]

IMO, if something is actually done with the forms regarding a filing system and referring back to the files, something will be done in short time.
My first thought is the stewards are going to get tired of missing the free beer while waiting on the same few people to fill out the forms every race. they will then either stop doing the forms completely (sorry, mandated by GCR.. have to do your job!), or they will do something about the repeat offenders so they will no longer have to spend their afternoons in detention with the ruffians.
 
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