spnkzss
New member
That's better, I would just have to go back and reread the rule about door bars attaching to the rear hoop. That should meet legality, but I know it's better than the picture previously.
Door Opening "X" Bars as Side Protection
- Thread starter Greg Amy
- Start date
That's better, I would just have to go back and reread the rule about door bars attaching to the rear hoop. That should meet legality, but I know it's better than the picture previously.
lateapex911
Super Moderator
spnkzss
New member
I find that statement interesting. Technically is it legal?
9.4.C.3 Cars competing in Improved Touring, Showroom Stock, Spec Miata, and Touring may extend one tube, from each front down tube, forward to the firewall but not penetrating the firewall.
Now I agree that is nit picking and should be allowed, but is it?
Speed Raycer
New member
Read the new rules on the firewall tubes?
The new wording limits us to one tube. Something along the lines of may add one tube connecting the cage to the firewall. Some read it as only one tube, others read it as only 1 tube can connect to the firewall and other tubes are allowed as long as they don't connect to the firewall. IMO, goofy wording with a slight change from the AS rules right above it.
Spanky types faster than I do!
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eprodrx7
New member
From watching the video I would have to say that this is the definition of "target fixation". Meaning that the driver was looking at the spinning car and not the clear road behind Richie's car. You can hear the driver getting out of the gas at the apex of the corner so he is aware of the trouble ahead but the mistake is that he let his instinctual action of looking at the spinning car prevent him from seeing the clear road to the left. So at reduced speed he drives off line toward the spinning car. The car will always go where you are looking. That's why the cars at the junk yard all have the telephone pole dead center on the hood ornament, That is what the driver was looking at. I applaud the driver for being aware as early as he was. In all the time that I have spent instructing, overcoming instinct is the hardest thing to do. I'm glad that everyone is OK and I think that as a cage builder and driver I have learned from the incident. It is a shame that it came at such expense. 
RexRacer19
New member
Read the new rules on the firewall tubes?
Yes, it says only one tube...but gussets are allowed and encouraged. Gussets can be tubes.
spnkzss
New member
Yes, it says only one tube...but gussets are allowed and encouraged. Gussets can be tubes.
Appendix B.
Gusset - A brace generally formed by attaching, by welding, a plate at or near the junction of two structural beams or tubes, providing reinforcement
particularly in the plane including the tubes and the plate.
I guess the loop hole is generally?
lateapex911
Super Moderator
Forgive me, as my GCR is in the shop, but isn't there a rule allowing tubes of other dimensions within the required tubes?
i dunno....sounds light Twilight Zone shit to me.
JoshS
New member
Yes:
Related, in the previous major section:
Also note item 5:
Seems like a lot of people here are recommending an X bar with four gussets. I don't think that would be legal.
lateapex911
Super Moderator
That seems like there is considerable "room" to do a lot, as long as the attachment point rules are honored.
I'd say that an extra bar as shown in my little quick drawing would be fine, although I'd attach it to the tubes at either end to minimize debates.
I'd say that an extra bar as shown in my little quick drawing would be fine, although I'd attach it to the tubes at either end to minimize debates.
Speed Raycer
New member
There are 2 joints in the traditional 3 bar X. You get 2 gussets per joint
From watching the video I would have to say that this is the definition of "target fixation". Meaning that the driver was looking at the spinning car and not the clear road behind Richie's car. You can hear the driver getting out of the gas at the apex of the corner so he is aware of the trouble ahead but the mistake is that he let his instinctual action of looking at the spinning car prevent him from seeing the clear road to the left. So at reduced speed he drives off line toward the spinning car. The car will always go where you are looking. That's why the cars at the junk yard all have the telephone pole dead center on the hood ornament, That is what the driver was looking at. I applaud the driver for being aware as early as he was. In all the time that I have spent instructing, overcoming instinct is the hardest thing to do. I'm glad that everyone is OK and I think that as a cage builder and driver I have learned from the incident. It is a shame that it came at such expense.
based on initial reports I believed that had indeed been the issue...
after seeing the video it is VERY CLEAR that is not the case. Justin drove offline AWAY from the spinning car and the car came to him... when the spin began there was no clear road to the left and while (most likely)locked up the spun car was still moving down the track. it was not until the last second that the spun car came across the track. I respect the credit that you gave the driver but I don't think you are giving him enough... You obviously are very experienced and knowledgeable but I ask that you watch the video a couple more times. A more experienced driver may have seen the spinning car change direction sooner or better been able to anticipate it but I believe that Justin did as well as anyone could expect avoiding the spinning car.
rsportvolvo
New member
Has anyone looked into mounting the seat to the roll cage? This is required for FIA roll cages in the WTCC. The best way to describe it is in this picture
http://polestarclub.iweb.se/archive/dokument/bilen_1024_768.jpg
This is an illustration of the Prodrive designed roll cage for the ETCC/WTCC/STCC Volvo S60. See how the seat is attached to 2 tubes mounted laterally to a longitudinal rocker panel tube. Also note the vertical tube connecting the rocker tube to the x-brace intersection.
I believe the design intent is to created a complete tubing safety cage that the driver is enclosed in. This is the design approach I would prefer to take vs. assuming the floor pan is stiff enough to protect me. Not to mention the driver's seat will most likely shift with the side entry protection bars.
http://polestarclub.iweb.se/archive/dokument/bilen_1024_768.jpg
This is an illustration of the Prodrive designed roll cage for the ETCC/WTCC/STCC Volvo S60. See how the seat is attached to 2 tubes mounted laterally to a longitudinal rocker panel tube. Also note the vertical tube connecting the rocker tube to the x-brace intersection.
I believe the design intent is to created a complete tubing safety cage that the driver is enclosed in. This is the design approach I would prefer to take vs. assuming the floor pan is stiff enough to protect me. Not to mention the driver's seat will most likely shift with the side entry protection bars.
rsportvolvo
New member
So is having more than 2 gussets per joint. That doesn't mean it's in the best interest of the driver's safety. It seems that keeping costs low takes precidence over safety in the Showroom Stock based classes. Not sure how a few extra tubes and some sheet metal gussets significantly increase cost? But I digress. The regulations are the rules we have to live by until changes are deemed necessary.