Insurance

So far, they haven't produced 2004 or 2005 numbers which they had promised me and to which I am entitled under federal statute.[/b]

Please cite the Title and Section of the U.S. Code that says you get a copy of their tax return.

Breaking the law doesn't seem to bother the BoD.[/b]

I suggest you contact the Kansas AG, the AG for the SCCA's incorporation state and the federal prosecutor for Topeka.

Oh yea.. and then continue subsidizing her solo friends and officials' parties and meetings. Who do you think is electing her?[/b]

I'm taking a great big leap here, but...the members of the Club under the Bylaws and rules of that Club? Those would be the same rules and bylaws under which you joined said Club.

Why then did they move the convention to Austin?[/b]

Again, a giant leap here, but...nobody wants to go to Topeka in January?

I've been told that officials said Topeka was too cold. They didn't have any problem putting club racers in 29 degree 40 MPH wind weather and then schedule it for the same time next year after the total weather disaster.[/b]

Average October Temperature:
Atlanta, GA: 62
Columbus, OH: 52
Topeka, KS: 57

Source:http://www.worldclimate.com/

Wow! I bet they even made a pact with Satan to have the weather so fouled up

And why can't we schedule it earlier? OHHHHHH... that would take thunder away from the solo nationals.[/b]

Rant, rant, rant, rant. With the exception of the last few years at Mid-Ohio, the traditional date of the Runoffs has been mid-October and the Solo Runoffs go at the end of Sept. Keeping the traditional Solo date, that means the Runoffs could advance 1 week.

Do us and yourself a favor, resign from SCCA and go find a club that you actually like.
 
Do us and yourself a favor, resign from SCCA and go find a club that you actually like. [/b]

No can do...chronic malcontents hate all...

Oh...and the wind?? there was a gust, according to the stats on wunderground.com, for Oct 13 that hit 42 kilometers per hour....so it's a fact, just a little issue with the measuremnt type. (That's 26 MPH) And the actual wind that day, not gusts, hit a high of 29 kph...(also known as 18 mph).

But hey, the SCCA big brass has a little private fund that makes money when it's colder than normal, so it's all part of the big plan....
 
I've been told that officials said Topeka was too cold. They didn't have any problem putting club racers in 29 degree 40 MPH wind weather and then schedule it for the same time next year after the total weather disaster. Take your most important event and fu$k it up and then do it again? Why? And why can't we schedule it earlier? OHHHHHH... that would take thunder away from the solo nationals. Can't do that. The why do it? ........

We're getting raped and you guys rah rah their efforts as altruistic volunteers. They're law breaking scumbags who use our money to feel like important people in their otherwise boring lives. Four years? Yea... I think that's optimistic. [/b]

Long sigh....

Maybe...just maybe, the event occurs later so more racers can race? As in the northern racers get a later start than the Southern racers...something about snowmelt on the tracks, and September is good racing weather. Perhaps...(just a wild guess here) the Runoffs..(which is the result of multiple racing series across the country) needs to occur AFTER those series have had enough chance to umm...happen??

Now, you're predicting anohther dismal cold weather event next year, as your quote states.

Psst...if you can predict weather, there are industries that can earn you hundreds of thousands a year. Might want to check into that.

Might be an intersting life......
 
Please cite the Title and Section of the U.S. Code that says you get a copy of their tax return.
[/b]

Section 990 of the IRS code.

I suggest you contact the Kansas AG, the AG for the SCCA's incorporation state and the federal prosecutor for Topeka.
[/b]

Done. Also have contacted the Insurance Commissioner's office and the IRS. Pete Lyon has been quoting rates to the club without a license. He's also been sending out "legal" documentation from Topeka including a number of letters to me yet he is not a member of the bar there. That's a no-no.

I'm taking a great big leap here, but...the members of the Club under the Bylaws and rules of that Club?
[/b]

Yup. That's why we need to change the bylaws. There are childeren and dogs voting.

Those would be the same rules and bylaws under which you joined said Club.
[/b]

No. The rules were changed over the years by the BoD.

Again, a giant leap here, but...nobody wants to go to Topeka in January?
[/b]

For an indoor event? Why incur a HUGE expense? Sorry. Officials want ta party keep it in Topeka.

Average October Temperature:
Atlanta, GA: 62
Columbus, OH: 52
Topeka, KS: 57

Source:http://www.worldclimate.com/
[/b]

Apples and oranges. Remember that the Runoffs at Ohio took place the tird week in September, not October. They ended almost three weeks before the HPT Runoffs even began.


Wow! I bet they even made a pact with Satan to have the weather so fouled up
Rant, rant, rant, rant. With the exception of the last few years at Mid-Ohio, the traditional date of the Runoffs has been mid-October and the Solo Runoffs go at the end of Sept. Keeping the traditional Solo date, that means the Runoffs could advance 1 week.
[/b]

Since 2001, maybe longer (I can't remember) we've been running third weekend in September.

Do us and yourself a favor, resign from SCCA and go find a club that you actually like.
[/b]

I'd rather see SCCA go bankrupt and then try and buy it or at least the assets. That's the current plan. The trustee at auction won't give any prefernce to members, workers or officials either. ;)
 
Back to insurance...

I got a quote for the same coverages we currently have excluding Pro, solo and all the other trash. Basically a savings of $442,000 in premiums immediately and possibly more depending on future claims. Far less than the $833,000+ I had hoped for but still a considerable amount. Luckily I have a cousin who is head of reinsurance for one of the world's largest insurers. Interestingly, he told me that the market is very soft right now and the SCCA policy is a golden goose. He said that a lot of companies would kill to get our policy yet we don't bid it out. Pete Lyon has an exclusive on it.
 
Yup. That's why we need to change the bylaws. There are childeren and dogs voting.[/b]

Proof as per the canine vote? Evidence that the canine vote has determined any election?

No. The rules were changed over the years by the BoD.[/b]

No.

Article XI SCCA By-Laws
"Proposals of either origin shall be submitted to the vote of the Regular Member by mailing notice of the proposal and a form of ballot to all Regular Members."

The members change the rules. If the By-laws allow the BoD to expand the list of eligible, then it still is the members

For an indoor event? Why incur a HUGE expense? Sorry. Officials want ta party keep it in Topeka.[/b]

Don't get to many conferences do you? Attendance at nicer venues is higher. Many people bring their families. Please establish that (a) the expenses are "HUGE" compared to a Topeka conference (B) the additional revenue generated through increased attendance is less than the additional expenses.

Flight about $300 without any group discount negotiated. Rooms: $115/night without factoring in the rate break given to the host of any conference.

Call it $1000 worse case (w/o a break on the hotel rooms) per Topeka-based staff member or about 40 people if the entire office comes down. That's $40,000 MAX - not exactly a HUGE amount. In addition, there's a good chance that the organization would book rooms for some of the staff in a Topeka-based convention. That means the additional cost is probably a 'HUGE' amount below that worst-case scenario.

Please define "Officials." You seem to cast a wide net across those you think are untermensch. Please remember that the CLUB includes far more than people who hold and use racing licenses. Nor is the purpose of the club exclusively the organization of automobile races.

"The nature of the activities to be conducted and the purposes to be promoted and carried out are as follows: To promote interest in sports cars and other fine automobiles and to encourage their safe and skillful operation, by developing, arranging, and regulating closed circuit road racing, rallying, and other forms of automotive competition, by dissemination of information through news releases and Club publications, and through related social and recreation activities for the instruction and enjoyment of its members."

Apples and oranges. Remember that the Runoffs at Ohio took place the tird week in September, not October. [/b]

Horse hockey! The move to the end of September was a recent move and the event was typically held in mid to late October. The event was moved after two consecutive years of unusually cold weather - the second year involving sleet.





Luckily I have a cousin who is head of reinsurance for one of the world's largest insurers. Interestingly, he told me that the market is very soft right now and the SCCA policy is a golden goose. He said that a lot of companies would kill to get our policy yet we don't bid it out. Pete Lyon has an exclusive on it.
[/b]

You do realize that a reinsurer doesn't issue policies? You do realize that before a reinsurer can reinsure a motor sports policy, someone must issue that policy? You do realize that there are a limited number of companies that issue motor sports policies?

That would seem to indicate that there cannot be "a lot" of companies that are willing to issue policies.

There might be a large number of companies that would be willing to get a piece of the reinsurance of an issued policy, but that's between the primary insurer and its reinsurers.
 
I can't remember the last time a MO Runoffs was any time other than mid-late September. It's been at least six or seven years. Hardly would consider it traditionally on a weeks that we haven't done it for that long.
 
I can't remember the last time a MO Runoffs was any time other than mid-late September. It's been at least six or seven years. Hardly would consider it traditionally on a weeks that we haven't done it for that long.
[/b]

2001 was the first year the Runoffs were moved from October to September. The Solo Runoffs were moved to a weekend earlier in September as well. Solo championships were interrupted because of the attack. Runoffs took place the week following.

The Runoffs are traditionally held in October. Of the 43 events held to date, 5 were held in September. Memorial Day is observed on the last Monday of May and have been so observed for 30+ years, yet the 31st of May is still noted as Memorial Day (traditional) on calenders.
 
Does anyone realize how many views and posts are spent responding to morons who think they know everything? The last thread one MB was involved heavily in was over 4000 views and this thread is pretty damned close to that one.
Stop waiting bandwidth or whatever the cyper stuff is called and get on to real things like who's getting what for their race car from Santa..... :114:
 
***They didn't have any problem putting club racers in 29 degree 40 MPH wind weather and then schedule it for the same time next year after the total weather disaster.***

Matt, most racers other than those that were at DB's were in their motel rooms at NIGHT when it was below 30*. A couple mornings at approx 6 a.m. when I left the motel room a jacket felt GREAT. It was total black at HPT untill 7a.m. As I said in the past Matt there was not a 29* day (time when club racers race).

What I like best about this thread is that the temps are easy to get facts & print which is more than Matt can do whih the facts of his current rant.


Happy Holidays :biggrinsanta:
David
 
I'd rather see SCCA go bankrupt and then try and buy it or at least the assets. That's the current plan. The trustee at auction won't give any prefernce to members, workers or officials either. ;)


[/b]

Glad to see you have the best interests of everyone in mind here.....
 
***They didn't have any problem putting club racers in 29 degree 40 MPH wind weather and then schedule it for the same time next year after the total weather disaster.***

Matt, most racers other than those that were at DB's were in their motel rooms at NIGHT when it was below 30*. A couple mornings at approx 6 a.m. when I left the motel room a jacket felt GREAT. It was total black at HPT untill 7a.m. As I said in the past Matt there was not a 29* day (time when club racers race).

What I like best about this thread is that the temps are easy to get facts & print which is more than Matt can do whih the facts of his current rant.
Happy Holidays :biggrinsanta:
David
[/b]


David, In full disclosure. It maybe was not 29 degrees but it was cold a crappy several days of the event. Lets be fair and I was just down the tent from you. The only place that was warm and comfortable was Babydolls and several of us spent next years tire budget there. With all that said lets put an end to this stupid thread cause it is serving no real information now. The fact will come out on insurance as soon as they can be obtained.
 
The Fran Am information was interesting. It certainly appears there was a concerted effort to keep the Fran Am cars out of club racing. SCCA just claimed it wasn't legally actionable. Definitely some hubris and arrogance in some of the e-mails and other documents Joe sent.

Why did they see Fran Am as such a threat?
 
:unsure: When this will get real interesting is when the numbers at the runoffs drop like a rock. I have heard from too many people that it is a trip they will not waste money on again. When some of the contract details come out (minimum car counts) it will be fun to watch.
 
***With all that said lets put an end to this stupid thread cause it is serving no real information now.***

Joe, I agree ^, but it was 80* one of the days I was there therefore I could say the weather was extremly nice for the Runoffs. ;)

Happy Holiday :biggrinsanta:
David
 
The Fran Am information was interesting. It certainly appears there was a concerted effort to keep the Fran Am cars out of club racing. SCCA just claimed it wasn't legally actionable. Definitely some hubris and arrogance in some of the e-mails and other documents Joe sent.

Why did they see Fran Am as such a threat?
[/b]

Because they wanted to build there own formula spec car.



Steve, the east coast number may drop but I will say the west coast numbers are going up. I think in the end it will balance out. I am not going to get into the whole Topeka thread again cause we are the for at least 2 more years.


David, The day I showed up it was 86 degrees at 8:30 at night with 15 mile an hour wind. It felt like a blow dryer when I got out of the toterhome. We had a decent test week and after that it was cold as a witches... for the balance of the week. I am not one of the folks that didn't like the place. Like you I had a good time for most of it and can see the potential of a nice facility in the future. Plus it's in the middle of the country which I think is almost as good as a rotating event.
 
***They didn't have any problem putting club racers in 29 degree 40 MPH wind weather and then schedule it for the same time next year after the total weather disaster.***

Matt, most racers other than those that were at DB's were in their motel rooms at NIGHT when it was below 30*. A couple mornings at approx 6 a.m. when I left the motel room a jacket felt GREAT. It was total black at HPT untill 7a.m. As I said in the past Matt there was not a 29* day (time when club racers race).

What I like best about this thread is that the temps are easy to get facts & print which is more than Matt can do whih the facts of his current rant.
Happy Holidays :biggrinsanta:
David
[/b]

Dave, half if not more of the folks there want to BBQ, socialize and party at the track at night. I heard the famous prod party looked like a Mayberry town meeting. That's sad because Alex works so damn hard at making it the best party at the Runoffs and does such a great job each year of accomplishing that. Everyone was huddled up in their motorhomes or off early to their hotels instead. If you want to sit alone in your hotel room, fine by me. But as I see it, it probably is MORE important to have mild weather in the evenings when people are walking around socializing. This was one of the biggest disappointments and complaints I've heard.

All they have to do is move it back to the third week in September. The mean temperature difference is something like 14 degrees. Unfortunately it would butt up against the SOLO Nationals and when push comes to shove the road racers always lose. This is what I object to as well as an indoor event for officials being given more attention than the biggest event for the club, our BoD serves non-racers without justification. That was never the intent of the club. Worse than that, they contradict themselves in such an obvious manner by incurring new costs for the convention that were an excuse for moving the Runoffs! I'm looking for the equity there. If you're going to make an effort to cut costs for T&E, do it across the board. Don't go and tell road racers to go to Topeka in Mid-October to save on staff T&E and then use those savings to fund new T&E for the convention. That's what this is all about. It's about shifting cash from road racing to non-racing departments. Be it insurance, expenses, staff, etc. We need to have a more equitable situation with respect to both cash, resources and prioritization of both our charter and intent.
 
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