Letting off Steam

Racerlinn said:
Dan, my opinion only, but I'm sorry to say that the deal with Kip at the start, in my view from the hill, looked very much like a very deep braking move on your part and an early turn in on his. It looked like a racing deal. Sorry the aftermath went as far as it did, I had the opportunity to speak with Kip since he was in the garage next door to me and he said he simply wanted to race, he wanted nothing to do with any involvement with stewards. Wish you had video, that would have been valueable.

As far as starting on the back stretch, I liked it and I think it was better than starting on the front where the back half of the field is cluttered up in the carousel. But I agree having the pace car bring the field farther around would be helpful.
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YOU ARE EXACTLY RIGHT! EARLY TURN IN! This is exactly what i told him! I had my braking under control and would have made it pass him easily if he didn't turn in early. He turned in early to block he and for no other reason! So why was I penalized? Why didn't the stewards hear what you said or did they and they didn't care even that was exactly what I told them?! I could have used my bumper on him a few times but I didn't ever though a few people that watch the race said I should have.
I hope he like his race on Sunday!
 
In my experience flagging... we've been expected to report all metal-to-metal, and if requested by race control, document with an Incident Report. Which one never likes to do, since that means you can't (if involved as a protest witness) get to the beers on-time with everyone else... :(

As far as blocking, etc, I have only one question: One move or two??
 
Dan, did you talk with Kip after the race? He's a nice guy and should have been given an opportunity to hear his side of things.
 
Dan, my observation was your right front tire was locked up and smoking and you flew up from way behind him. Now, your car does appear to have some really great brakes, I will give you that. I would not describe Kip's move as a block. He made one move, that being turning in to the corner. Again, just my observation, would be great to see video from someone. Other racers I talked with thought it was just hard racing. Wish you had stayed because I think you and Kip would have put on a great show on Sunday. The other ITR cars seemed to be dropping like flies with mechanicals. And I had no conversations with any official at the track about it.
 
924Guy said:
In my experience flagging... we've been expected to report all metal-to-metal, and if requested by race control, document with an Incident Report. Which one never likes to do, since that means you can't (if involved as a protest witness) get to the beers on-time with everyone else... :(

As far as blocking, etc, I have only one question: One move or two??
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One move per straight and if your Racing you should always use it! ( or else it is just another track day!) I would argue that the one move should be started at or before the braking zone... if someone is trying a late braking (dive bomb) move then they are most likely NOT going to be able to do any additional braking or avoidance moves since they are most likely already on the edge. A good driver will observe or anticipate the dive bomb, use the 1 blocking move to put them way off line... then hey mess the turn up bad and spin or you do the over and under with all your momentum! Just my honest opinion. : )

Dan, you and the other driver (or just you) had 30min. to protest the penalty. I was in a similar situation and protested the "severity of the penalty" and we settled on 1 point on my license for a year. (That was about 5 years ago)

Stephen
 
Dan,
I was watching from the hill also and I have to say that the braking move on your part was optimistic. I Also saw your RF wheel locked and saw Kip make a second move to the left to avoid your car, at which point you slid up the track and hit him. Regardless of where he decides to turn in it is still your responsibility as the overtaking driver to complete a safe pass.
 
eprodrx7 said:
Dan,
I was watching from the hill also and I have to say that the braking move on your part was optimistic. I Also saw your RF wheel locked and saw Kip make a second move to the left to avoid your car, at which point you slid up the track and hit him. Regardless of where he decides to turn in it is still your responsibility as the overtaking driver to complete a safe pass.
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John, I was right behind him I started in the middle of the track coming into turn 7, he moved over to block my pass, I went farther to the right to make the pass from the inside, still totally in control of the brakes and the car then he made another move to the right and that's when he hit me! I would have made the pass if he didn't make the second move. This is the way it happened. If you didn't see it this way your wrong. My right front wheel probably started to lock up when I saw he was coming over on me. Other people saw what happened also and the people that know my know I don't lie. The only move to the left he made was after he hit me!

It's also said you have to give racing room as stated in the gcr.
 
RedMisted said:
It never crossed my mind... I guess I was too busy trying to repair a mirror for the upcoming race. In fact, I wasn't even sure which VW it was. I thought maybe it was the no. 21-- I had been warned about him once two years ago-- but couldn't tell.

Wish I could have seen the video. Does it show the car's number?

Thanks for offering your help to the proper authorities anyway...
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It was 21. Once I get this transmission rebuild figured out I'll see if I can post some video. Will also be interesting for those that weren't there to see what those starts were like.
 
Dan, it's not about you or Kip lieing. How many times while watching racing do you hear drivers "that driver ran right into me!" only to watch the broadcast replays and learn something else happened. Possibly in this situation there's another side?

You didn't answer - did you approach Kip and get his side? Did you seek out video from any competitors who were behind you, then review it as well? Since you still are pretty upset, maybe contact Kip via e-mail (being polite and giving him a chance to hear how he views things)? Without doing any of these things, you're just going to remain pissed off. For all you know he's posted something on another forum about you. ;)
 
Racerlinn said:
Dan, my observation was your right front tire was locked up and smoking and you flew up from way behind him. Now, your car does appear to have some really great brakes, I will give you that. I would not describe Kip's move as a block. He made one move, that being turning in to the corner. Again, just my observation, would be great to see video from someone. Other racers I talked with thought it was just hard racing. Wish you had stayed because I think you and Kip would have put on a great show on Sunday. The other ITR cars seemed to be dropping like flies with mechanicals. And I had no conversations with any official at the track about it.
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They penalized the wrong person on Sat.! They were wrong to do so. I wasn't going to take a chance of something happening Sunday because of someone seeing things from a wrong angle and I get some kind of penelty! BTW, he blocked me almost everywhere. Ask anyone who watched the race. At least 3 or 4 people told me they saw it. It's funny the corner workers never called that in?

I will have some kind of video in by next race because I can't depend on people being honest.
 
How much damage to the cars in this incident? Anybody go off track? Lose positions?

Isn't about liars and dishonesty if people saw it differently than you did. They just saw it differently. But packing up and leaving never looks good...heck you could have stayed and cheered for the other BMWs!
 
Racerlinn said:
... But I agree having the pace car bring the field farther around would be helpful.
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I believe that the IRL pulls the pace car off on driver's left at three. There is a gate there that they can use to get back to their normal parking spot. It would involve coming through the B-C split and then up the pit lane (either hot or cold pits) and pull in next to the ambulance.
 
gran racing said:
Even if a person never intends to watch it, video sure can be useful in clearing up perceptions and issues out on track. How many times do drivers think it went down one way (amateur OR pro) when in reality it was a bit different? Often. I now am in the practice of running it anytime out on track during a race weekend just for these reasons.
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I run a three camera setup, one pointed front, one out the back, and one on the driver (verifies point by's). SCCA Pro World Challange mandates the same system for just that reason - dispute resolution.
 
The white #21 ITB VW, Ray Santomo, is now affectionately known as "The Chopper" on roadraceautox.com. That guy made a careers worth of bad decisions, nose chops, and "donut-impressions" into other peoples doors in one weekend. For Sunday's anticts, where he hit four cars on the first lap before finally sending a car HARD into the tirewall, and sending the driver to the hospital, a Stewards RFA was done. They got driver reports and corner-worker reports, but apparently NO ONE brought any video forward, and the Stewards ruled that there wasn't enough there to hammer him. Only AFTER the ruling was made, did a good video surface, showing exactly what happened, as described by the rest of the drivers who made/wrote statements. Only response was "Well, there's nothing we can do now."


Dan, I like you, and I've met and raced on track with you several times, so please don't take this as I'm trying to hate on you or something, but I have to say that from where I was standing against the fence just before the braking zone, your braking move looked awfully optomistic. There was tire smoke well before the contact happened, and Kip gave you no more or less room than he's required to, and he did indeed move back to the left before the contact occured. That's just what I saw, and again, I'm not trying to hate on you or anything like that. Could Kip have done more to make sure the contact didn't happen? Yes, but you could've too. I've been in situations like this too, it's impossible to race competitively for 11 years and not, but eventually you do have to listen to what others may have to say about an incident involving you, look at yourself in the mirror, and at least listen to what they have to say. At least you'll seriously take into consideration what they have to say, see a different way of viewing a situation, and ultimately have it make you an even better, more well-rounded, and successful driver. Personally, I really wish you would've stuck around, learned from the incident, dropped the drama on grid, and geared up for what would've been two more GREAT races with Kip. Again, I'm really not trying to hate on you or anything, but just trying to offer some constructive criticism.
 
benspeed said:
How much damage to the cars in this incident? Anybody go off track? Lose positions?

Isn't about liars and dishonesty if people saw it differently than you did. They just saw it differently. But packing up and leaving never looks good...heck you could have stayed and cheered for the other BMWs!
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It's about right and wrong Ben. I got penalized for doing nothing but trying to race somebody to the best of my ability. The other car hit me and I'll bet my life on it that's how sure I am. If i can't trust people to call the race honestly, because they missed a whole bunch of stuff going on out there. People sometimes see and don't see what they want. It doesn't mean they saw it or called it right. I had a lot of respect for erie communications and I still believe there are some great people there, I've raced with them for years. Somebody blew it this weekend ask the spectators, they saw a different race.

 
Can we stipulate for this conversation that "turning in" is NOT a "move" where the blocking question is concerned...?

K
 
Knestis said:
Can we stipulate for this conversation that "turning in" is NOT a "move" where the blocking question is concerned...?

K
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K, I've been racing Mid O since the early 90's. If he tried to turn where we were on the track he would have been on the inside grass.
 
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