Sometimes you must interpret rules.[/b]
Hoo, boy. I'm sitting this one out.
GregA, RETIRED rules nerd.
Sometimes you must interpret rules.[/b]
I'll post the rules again and please discuss how what we did illegal, stating what and how I broke a rule. Please don't hide behind the IIDSYCDIYC or what ever. Sometimes you must interpret rules. I'm really not trying to twist them to fit my needs. I read these rules below and thats how we came up with what I did for the adjustable spring seats.
Spring seat ride height
location may be altered from stock. Spacers,
including threaded units with adjustable spring seats,
may be used with coil springs.
It says I can do it. It makes no specific mention of how to mount it. In fact I beleive the old rules said something about them or coil overs not being welded but it looks as though that verbage was dropped. The rules do state that there shall be no reinforcement of any suspension component. That was not my intent or do I beleive we have accomplished that in any of our changes. I still don't get how you can veiw what I have done as illegal.
What is a little confusing is that in one section of the rules it says we can cange the spring seat ride height location and another part of the rule states that they must be installed in the original location using the the original system of attachment. And then again in the same rule it states that spacers including threaded units with adjustable spring seats my be used with coil springs. Is this what has you questioning what I have done.
And as for the grinding of the spindles I will stand firm on that in that the small amount of material removed is insignificant and should be a nonissue. We can agree to disagree on that one.
And I stated that I have changed the rear sway bar to meet the rules, I missed that one. [/b]
I'm not changing the K-member or the control arm. I'm modifying the spring seat, that's it.
Read the rule and see they do talk about the spring seat. How would you mount an adjustable spring seat? The rules say I can do it, how else can you read this? If I completly rebuilt the K member to fit the spring than yes, but all we touched was the original seat!
That is what I mean by interpret the rules. It's like a brake duct, there is no description of how it should only cool the rotor or the caliper, or how you can attach the brake duct. One must read into the rule to realize that the duct is going somewhere on the brakes and the rest is left up to the builder. Does it then mean I can't use a tie wrap to clamp it to the car because it does not say.
And you can change the LCA, change bushing material and even spot weld them in. I realize that that is different than the spring seat but you see the point that ther is some degree of modification there. I'm not using that rule to wend on my spring seat it's just that there is some expectation of a change. [/b]
I'm not changing the K-member or the control arm. I'm modifying the spring seat, that's it.
Read the rule and see they do talk about the spring seat. How would you mount an adjustable spring seat? The rules say I can do it, how else can you read this? If I completly rebuilt the K member to fit the spring than yes, but all we touched was the original seat!
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That is what I mean by interpret the rules. It's like a brake duct, there is no description of how it should only cool the rotor or the caliper, or how you can attach the brake duct. One must read into the rule to realize that the duct is going somewhere on the brakes and the rest is left up to the builder. Does it then mean I can't use a tie wrap to clamp it to the car because it does not say.
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And you can change the LCA, change bushing material and even spot weld them in. I realize that that is different than the spring seat but you see the point that ther is some degree of modification there. I'm not using that rule to wend on my spring seat it's just that there is some expectation of a change.
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Maybe we are talking about the same thing here. On most strut cars, you have a threaded shock body with an adjustable spring pearch. The lower pearch spins and raises and lowers the ride height. Because the units are all called out in the GCR as legal to replace, you can do so. You can NOT, change mounting points or method of attachment. When it is said that the adjustable pearch is welded to the K-member, if that is different than stock, it is simply not legal. To go one step further as Jake eluded to, how much welding would be acceptable until someone considered it 'strengthening' of some other part? Just an example...I am a little confused. I can put adjustable spring seats in but I can't alter anything? How are you expected to install them? If you install adjustable perches on any car that did not come with them from the factory you have just modified the car.
If you look at the install I think any semi educated person would agree that the adjustable perches in no way enhance the performance of the K-Member or the LCA.
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Thank you Billf!!! At last someone posted that has seen the under side of a Mustang. You rule book pros really should "look before you leap" don't you think.
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Andy, and others....
I might be able to shed a little light on the problem, having raced one of these ODD configurations for a few years.
Mustangs of the III variety use a strut suspension...not the typical McPherson variety. The strut is actually only the shock unit, with the spring separate. The spring resides on the lower arm, and is resisted by a separate section of the "K" member...(a sub frame) that has upper spring mounts. In service the spring actually just sits there, held by the cups of the upper and lower mounts.
This is another case of a vehicle which varies in design such that it cannot use products that are actually written for in the rules...Koni shocks are not made for this car, and in reality, cannot be modified to fit. Other hardware such as the adjustable springs perches that are made for McPherson style struts, are not able to be used here.
Good racing,
Bill
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Yes Bill, thanks.
Dick - not a big leap from machining spindles and cockpit adjustable sway bars to assume we are talking about someting fishy here. A response like Bill's would have been great a day ago.
I will still wait for the picture to help us all understand. I found this one on the web.
So why aren't we using 'regular' coilover conversions? A quick trip through the Interweb finds stuff like this:
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/
Bolt on front and rear coliover kits for Koni's - no mods required to anything no specifically mentioned in the GCR. They sell the shocks - will revalve them for you and they sell the appropriate upper camber/caster plates as well.
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What do you mean .....Koni shocks are not made for this car......? They are made for the V8 Mustangs in multiple flavors and can be custom vlaved. You can also run rod end circle track shock on a mustang and stay well within the IT rules. All you do is add a stud to a double shear UB Machine shock mount and run the stud through the factory shock mount on the body.
For what it is worth I ran adjustable spring spacers on my Solo II FOX Mustang for years. They were not welded or tacked into place in the front or rear. Unlike Ron I mounted the rear adjustable spacer on top of the spring not on the arm because I didn't want to add the weight to the arm. Anyway I never had an issue when them coming out.
Now, that said I think you should be able to tack them in place because it would make them easier to adjust I would request a clarification and get this added to the book.
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