New IT class revealed at National Convention

I like the occasional funnel cake so no snobbery from me...

IT started as a regional invention and grew. This is a regional class that's designed to meet the needs of a market segment, and that's awesome. It's a region-specific deal so it has no more bearing on IT nationally than do the various (as has been pointed out) ITE/ITO/ITwhatever classes run by regions.

I don't think "slow" will be a new - or significant - problem, at least as it's driven by the rules. It's possible to build a dead slow car under CURRENT SCCA class regs (witness the Spridget thing we had to deal with during ARRC testing). And boneheads are as likely to be stoopid in an expensive car as a cheap one - mostly.

I just think it's going to be a fascinating case study of why doing this kind of thing every few years is something of a goat-rope, and why these initiatives ALWAYS move forward on the false proposition that the rules will control costs.

K
 
Knestis said:
I like the occasional funnel cake so no snobbery from me...

IT started as a regional invention and grew. This is a regional class that's designed to meet the needs of a market segment, and that's awesome. It's a region-specific deal so it has no more bearing on IT nationally than do the various (as has been pointed out) ITE/ITO/ITwhatever classes run by regions.

I don't think "slow" will be a new - or significant - problem, at least as it's driven by the rules. It's possible to build a dead slow car under CURRENT SCCA class regs (witness the Spridget thing we had to deal with during ARRC testing). And boneheads are as likely to be stoopid in an expensive car as a cheap one - mostly.

I just think it's going to be a fascinating case study of why doing this kind of thing every few years is something of a goat-rope, and why these initiatives ALWAYS move forward on the false proposition that the rules will control costs.

K
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Hey now if you're talking about the Bugeye running the test day this past year at the ARRC that little thing allowed me to make my first ever pass. :p
 
There's nothing $ 500 about a $ 500 ChumpCar ... You can spend a pretty good chunk of change on a good ChumpCar effort

I can buy a decent IT car for what it costs to build a good ChumpCar
 
I was at the convention, and in the room when they spoke about this. It's not a joke. They do have a "no crap like shark fins or tripper poles on the cars" type of rule.

AS long as the cars meet SCCA safety requirements, they can run.

The idea is, these events are being filled, and people are getting real on-track, fender to fender experience. What better audience to capture and have race with us and become members of the SCCA? The ones that get the racing bug are going to race somewhere...we may as well be the ones to give them an easy entry path.

The people from the region that are doing it spoke about how many of them had entered these events, and while the skill level was not real high, the events were run cleaner (non contact-wise) than many of the Scca events they had seen.

Good on them for thinking outside the box on how to grow membership and participation.
 
Knestis said:
I just think it's going to be a fascinating case study of why doing this kind of thing every few years is something of a goat-rope, and why these initiatives ALWAYS move forward on the false proposition that the rules will control costs.
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Rule Section 1. Specify safety level
Rule Section 2. Specify what performance modifications can be made.
Rule Section 3. Set the claiming price for the class. You put the cash down, you walk away with that car as it came off the track.

You want to build a $60K car to win the ARRC? Good for you -- you'll win the ARRC and someone will take your car home for $5K.
 
TStiles said:
There's nothing $ 500 about a $ 500 ChumpCar ... You can spend a pretty good chunk of change on a good ChumpCar effort

I can buy a decent IT car for what it costs to build a good ChumpCar
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It's probably cheaper to buy an existing IT car than it costs to do a new build Chumpcar , Then the bonus of selling off the suspension components and using those funds for the cost of the 1st race.

And it might suprise some people how fast Chumpcars go , at the Chumpionship last labor dat at Iowa Speedway the race alternated between the road course and the oval for a total of 25 1/2 hours of racing with avg speeds on the oval being in the low 31 second range for much of the field .... just a tick under 100 mph avg ;)
 
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we should be running in our first LeMons event in April.

i give the region credit for getting outside the box. if they can fill up their own race group, that would be great.

one headache will be the licensing. but if we had our LeMons event late in the summer, this would be one way to get some more seat time or shake-down time for your car.
 
From discussions elsewhere I don't *think* this is any kind of route to "alternate licensure." It's just a class.

K
 
That may really keep the participation numbers down. It seems to me -- perception only -- that a large portion of Chump/Lemons drivers are not SCCA licensed, and do not want to go through the rigamarole and expense of getting one.
 
I said at the convention and I will say here. The club racing department is pretty good at finding ways to make things happen if you are creative. I bet if some region wanted to try to do something like a lemons race there is some way to make it happen. Maybe it would be sanctioned as a school. Competitors would need membership and a physical but I bet the rest is doable if I thought about it long enough. Hell there are plenty of people smarter than me I bet Butch could figure a way in no time.
By the way, I am told MidDiv had a lemons class at schools and regionals last year.
 
Do chump/lemons cars meet SCCA/IT safety requirements? If so, then I don't see a big difference between these cars and other IT cars. Couldn't they run in an existing IT class, though?

David
 
DavidM said:
Do chump/lemons cars meet SCCA/IT safety requirements? If so, then I don't see a big difference between these cars and other IT cars. Couldn't they run in an existing IT class, though?

David
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For the most part they do but they have glass removed I believe, many have more extensive gutting than IT, etc.
 
dickita15 said:
I bet if some region wanted to try to do something like a lemons race there is some way to make it happen. Maybe it would be sanctioned as a school. Competitors would need membership and a physical but I bet the rest is doable if I thought about it long enough. Hell there are plenty of people smarter than me I bet Butch could figure a way in no time.
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Sure enough. If the SCCA can toss the "we've always done it this way" I'm sure we could find better, faster, and more modern ways to teach folks to race and race safely. How old is the "two schools" model? And just because "it has always worked" doesn't mean there isn't a better way to do it.
 
I think ITJ is a a fine idea. It's good to see one of our regions trying to capitalized on the Chump/Lemons phenomenon to attract drivers from outside the club and provide it's members a new low-buck option. There certainly is room in the SCCA for a class less costly then IT and SM.

I know of another region where the SCCA members are running a Lemons clone endurance race independent of the National office sanctioning , so this isn't the first region to recognize the potential.

I recently asked the SCCA Chairman of the Board if the national office has been following the success of Lemons/Chump in attracting new road racers and if there was any interest in an SCCA getting involved in this sort of thing. He assured me that the interest was less then zero in Topeka. I was a bit surprise by this and it seemed like our club is missing an opportunity.

I think some of the best ideas in the SCCA emerge from the regions, I hope the ITJ class takes off out in Oregon, and then spreads eastward.
 
At first when I saw this thread I thought what the heck are they doing now.

I am scheduled to compete in my first Lemons race this May at NHMS and i am very excited! The one thing I keep thinking while we prep the car is that it would be nice for some of the other drivers to have some chances to race in some other events (if the car makes it through the first event!).

So after thinking about it, now I like the idea but I am NOT a fan of the association with IT. In reality the cars are closer to Showroom Stock/Touring cars than IT cars in my opinion. Personally I think it shows all of us IT folk what "they" think about the category as a whole. NOT IMPRESSED with that part of it but I like the idea to get more people involved...

Raymond "Still glad to see people thinking outside the box" Blethen
 
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So what happens when a guy with a $500 investment (little skin in the game) pulls a total bonehead move and takes out a 60K racecar? Oh well....that's racing???
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Or what happens when a "$500 investment" car laps a 60k racecar? No, really.

I went to a ChumpCar event and choose not to watch much video of the track to challenge myself. Hell, after all these guys don't need a license, right? There was plenty of stupid stuff going on at this event, but honestly most of it was from the guys who can drive, not the novices. Walking to pit lane I was like, err, really? I wasn't expecting PAID pro drivers to be here. Why? It's about FUN.

My point with this link is absolutely not for some 100 visitors traffic but the post is too long to put here. This was my first ChumpCar event. Next time I'll take it as seriously as attending an SCCA event I want to win in a competitive class. Shame on me. (I did LOVE racing in the dark once I figured out where the track went.)

Why SCCA versus ChumpCar? Yes, there's a huge reason why. We offer sprint races. It takes a lot more to put together a enduro effort than a sprint race effort. One man crew versus several person crew.

IMO, way to go and actually take a look at the market and what's out there. If there are a few people who go to BMWCCA or PCA, so be it. They aren't paying higher entry fees or membership fees anyway. Hell, maybe I'll go down this route myself in a few years.

-- I do agree it should not be directly associated with IT. Give it another category. Not hard to do.
 
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You might be incredibly suprised to see who some of the guys that do occasional races in crapcans . People Like Trans Am Buzz McCAll , Randy Pobst Tommy Kendall among many other pro guys. Many guys have previously raced in SCCA & IMSA and for whatever reasoned stepped away and are now finding racing fun again under that formula.
 
rydermike said:
... Many guys have previously raced in SCCA & IMSA and for whatever reasoned stepped away and are now finding racing fun again under that formula because people will let them drive for free.
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Fixed.

By the way, I have a Lemons MkII Jetta kit. It ran a couple of races then blew up the engine before I snagged it. I've got a complete MkIII 2.0 swap for it.

Problem is, I don't have the time to put it together and drag it to the track. I'd be willing to give it to someone in exchange for the opportunity to be one of those "many guys" for a couple of races.

:)

K
 
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