Short Shifters in ITS

I wrote:

Generally speaking, I would not protest someone for a non-performance enhancing issue.

Bill Miller wrote:
Unfortunately, this is one of the main problems w/ our system today. More than one person has stated the same (or similar) thing on several occasions, relating to any number of items (washer bottles come to mind).
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Bill, I would love for it to not be self-policing. But, I don't think that will ever happen in SCCA-Regional racing so we deal with what we have.

As to my reasons for not protesting someone for a non-performance enhancing issue (note: I never stated my opinion on whether a short shifter was or was not). I wouldn't be proud of inherriting a win based on a protest for an item that had very little to do with the outcome of the race. .

However, when someone doesn't even give the appearance of attempting to comply with the rules, not only his he/she thumbing their nose at the system but the rest of the competitors. Combine that total disregard with the bonds that are sometimes required, the inability of the system to work as intended...if I suspect that something is amiss that is very difficult (expensive) to prove and something like a short shifter or missing washer bottle is staring me in the face, that can be very tempting.
 
Originally posted by Geo:
Bill, Earl was 100% correct. Having been at the ARRC this year and watched some of the tear-downs and all, I found it curious to see Bob's car for sale advertised with a short shifter.

Changing the rule or not is a completely separate issue. Bob running one is hardly reason to change the rule.

FWIW, I think it would be a rather innocuous rule change. I don't think they make anyone faster. Some people like them (me for one) and others don't. I don't see where if the rule were changed it would make the rest of the field have to have one. Anyway, I was just kind of wondering aloud how people felt about the rule.
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Sorry for the misinterpretation George. That's kind of why I asked about your reasoning, just didn't seem to make sense.

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">I don't have the rules in front of me but doesn't it say somewhere that you can bend the shift arm, thereby shortening it?</font>
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Tom,

It says that the shift lever may be bent above the tunnel or floor. In other words, you can't bend it between where it connects to the linkage and the pivot point. Not sure how bending it shortens it.

Daryl,

I understand exactly what you're saying. However, one has to wonder exactly how far someone will 'push the envelope'. Everyone has their own yardstick of what is or is not a performance advantage. By the same token, there are people who will rationalize and justify something because A) someone else is cheating, B) car X isn't spec'd properly, C) their car isn't spec'd properly, D) everyone else is doing it, E) a slew of others.

I guess you're right, it won't change. And, based on the story by Mr. Gulick , et. al., I don't know if we should place all that much faith in the officals being able to do any better job than the drivers.

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608
 
Originally posted by dj10:
As for me, I don't give a rats *** if it is legal or not.

DJ
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This is where we differ.

We had annual tech on Saturday. While preping the car for the trip to tech I noticed something the previous owner (a drag racer) had done to the rear suspension. I made a point of asking the tech inspector (even though annual tech is a safety tech and not a rules compliance check) his opinion of the modification. In his opinion the mod was not allowed by the rules. I knew this before I ask but it never hurts to ask. So instead of running a car I knew was illegal, even though the chances of "getting caught" are very slim I made the choice to Remove the ITS from the car and will replace it with ITE.

In celebration I also ripped the damn washer bottle out just because I can now.
smile.gif
 
Originally posted by Bill Miller:

Not sure how bending it shortens it.
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As long as you are not bending it "straighter", bending it effectively shortens it by moving the shift knob closer to the pivot point. Of course couldn't you just change the shift knob that allows you to actuate it from a point closer to the pivot point and be done with it?

edited to add signature.

--Daryl DeArman


[This message has been edited by Quickshoe (edited December 06, 2004).]
 
Bend it like this: N
the knob is on the top right, the length is clearly shorter, although lower. Kinda dumb, sure, but it IS possible.

My issue is big picture...all cars have been classified without shortshifters. Allowing a SS will affect some cars, but not others, which, theoretically, destroys the balance of the class.

And it DOES add another "thing" you might have to have...

Practically speaking, I'm not sure it will have a huge effect if it were allowed, but I don't see the need.

Question...if guys didn't think it would help, why would they go to the trouble and expense?

IF the car has a SS it should be removed.

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited December 07, 2004).]
 
Originally posted by lateapex911:
... Question...if guys didn't think it would help, why would they go to the trouble and expense? ...
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I'm glad I'm not the only person that sees this logic.

K

EDIT - notice how the original poster refers to the "IT runoffs?" That misconception is getting too popular for my tastes, as we enter the ear of PCAs.

[This message has been edited by Knestis (edited December 07, 2004).]
 
Originally posted by lateapex911:
Question...if guys didn't think it would help, why would they go to the trouble and expense?
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In my case I just like the feel better. Why do people install aftermarket pedals?


------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
 
A short shifter can be made legally for cars that have very long shifters to begin with.

I would guess that this applies to cars that were not made for performance in the first place, although I do remember Alfa Sypders have a very long shifter that comes out of the dash console.


IMHO too many changes happen to make the cars 'look like race cars'. Personally, I could care less if my race car looks like anyone elses perception of a race car. It is a race car based on my racing it, not on apperance.
 
To clarify, we are talking about "short shift kits" that change the geometry of the shifter linkage, under the floor - not just the length of the lever.

K
 
Thanks Bill, Jake, George and Kirk, that clarified it for me. My shifter is bent above the pivot. It just came that way when I bought the car. If a short shifter lowers the pivot point, you get more leverage, correct? But this shortens the distance of travel for the shift for rods right? So, how does this work without increasing the length of the rods? Or do the kits do that too?

Just wanting to learn something. Trying to see what the payoff is.

Tom
 
Reading the GCR, it appears that you are not allowed to even change the shiftknob.

It doesn't mention it so therefore, you cannot change it.

Or am I missing something? (Always a possibility.)
 
I noticed that about the knob.

I don't have mine and no source for OEM. Can I just use a skull knob, eightball knob, or whatever?

------------------
Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
Ford Lightning
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!
 
I noticed that about the knob.

I don't have mine and no source for OEM. Can I just use a skull knob, eightball knob, or whatever?

------------------
Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
Ford Lightning
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!
 
ITCS 17.1.4.D.9.b: "Any steering wheel except wood rimmed types may be used. Any shift knob may be used."
 
Originally posted by jhooten:
This is where we differ.

We had annual tech on Saturday. While preping the car for the trip to tech I noticed something the previous owner (a drag racer) had done to the rear suspension. I made a point of asking the tech inspector (even though annual tech is a safety tech and not a rules compliance check) his opinion of the modification. In his opinion the mod was not allowed by the rules. I knew this before I ask but it never hurts to ask. So instead of running a car I knew was illegal, even though the chances of "getting caught" are very slim I made the choice to Remove the ITS from the car and will replace it with ITE.

In celebration I also ripped the damn washer bottle out just because I can now.
smile.gif
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Well done sir, nothing like honor and intergity. <Salute> That is how we are alike!
DJ
 
Final thought on short shift kits...they are not all equal. Some actually have levers that are the smae length as stock, or even longer. But the fulcrum to shift rod distance is always changed, and someties lots of other things as well. You can get about a bushel of different model SS kits for a 911. Some are nearly $1000.

So, to those in favor of a rule change allowing a short shift kit, please write the rule allowing it for us.....

Keep in mind the definition of what constitutes a "SS kit" is key.

As an interesting illustration, remember the case of the prod car that disabled his reverse gear to use the linkage to create a 5 speed. The rule required a "working reverse", and he had it...but he had to jack the car up and use a wrench to engage it! The CRB was not amused........

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
 
Originally posted by GregAmy:
ITCS 17.1.4.D.9.b: "Any steering wheel except wood rimmed types may be used. Any shift knob may be used."
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Damn, got to get a GCR but need to wait for the new one. Thanks Greg.

So - excellent! A shiny chrome skull it is, got one in the garage!!!

Ron

------------------
Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
Ford Lightning
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!
 
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