tom_sprecher
Super Moderator
It's too bad the BoD or CRB (and ITAC
) doesn't ask their members what they would like them to do every once in a while...maybe we all could give them some credit.
What is up with Mazda vs SCCA???
- Thread starter lateapex911
- Start date
It's too bad the BoD or CRB (and ITAC
) doesn't ask their members what they would like them to do every once in a while...maybe we all could give them some credit.
lateapex911
Super Moderator
It's too bad the BoD or CRB (and ITAC
[/b]
You simply can not be serious!
There are what ..FIVE ITACers who post here, read what you all have to say, and ask questions!! What about the VIN rule?? We are ASKING for YOUR response. How about the ECU rule? We ASKED you for your thoughts...and even wrote up a preface outlining the intent, as well as advantages and disadvantages to each option to spur your thoughts and responses!
The CRB ASKs us ITACers things all the time....and we in turn dig around, asking you. You might not know it, but if I wrote, "Ther CRB is thinking about..." everytime we discussed concepts and ideas, it might get out of control, LOL, but trust me, the water gets tested.
As for the BoD, I don't know about your guy/gal, but I know mine, and he hears from me when there is the need, and he considers my opinion, asks smart followup questions and thats all I can ask .
Butch Kummer
New member
Knowing Mr. Sprecher, he had his tongue planted firmly in his cheek when entering that post in repsonse to the previous poster's implication that Mazda is the only entity that asks for input from it's "costumers".
Perhaps it would have been clearer with a <sarchasm on> and <sarchasm off> entry?
Perhaps it would have been clearer with a <sarchasm on> and <sarchasm off> entry?
Andy Bettencourt
Super Moderator
He did have a wink after the ITAC.... 
tom_sprecher
Super Moderator
He did have a wink after the ITAC....
[/b]
Jeez, Jake, be cool, it's like Butch and Andy said.
Like most others here I greatly appreciate that you all ask for input when replying to CRB requests and assume that the input you gain from the community you serve forms the basis of your collective response. As a volunteer representative of the IT community at large that is your responsibilty and obligation and as a member of that constituency I believe you all do an excellent job.
I strongly feel when others in a similar type of position that see their role and unfortunately themselves as something more than that described above it may be time to re-evaluate their suitablity for the position. They can no longer effectively execute the will of the members which ultimately is what they have been tasked with. This opinion prompted the remark in the first place.
In the future I will try to remember Butch's suggestion and use the <sarchasm on/off> switch.
lateapex911
Super Moderator
oops, my bad. Your comment came on the heels of a similar comment made by someone else, and I was shocked then...theirs was serious. So sorry! I'll read more carefully next time!
NASA needs the $. NASA seems to need and appreciate the racers and the track junkies. SCCA is run by weekend Kings that need to feel powerful, and that you are lucky to be allowed to run asolo or race.
I have not renewed my SCCA card and have gone oval racing to avoid the hassle of SCCA.( and lack of under age driver allowance).
My Son and I will go NASA racing , with a ITB Golf, next spring. SCCA has pissed off my pleasant , easy going , Son, enough to sell my Miata. The only car that SCCA solo tracks seem to excel with.
NASA seems to put the customer first, But I have not run any events. I have looked at the schedule and car counts for Sebring. SCCA gets more cars for sure, but the actual tracktime is a little less for NASA.
Cost about the same.
I see a real opportunity for Mazda to grab the NASA hand and add some exposure ...
I may go back to SCCA eventually, only if my Son can get a better return or experience. Now I will go any place else. We run the Vette club solos , they are fast, appreciate the cash and help that we extend , and are friendly!! Imagine that!! Some damp days, we get 30 runs!!!
I have not renewed my SCCA card and have gone oval racing to avoid the hassle of SCCA.( and lack of under age driver allowance).
My Son and I will go NASA racing , with a ITB Golf, next spring. SCCA has pissed off my pleasant , easy going , Son, enough to sell my Miata. The only car that SCCA solo tracks seem to excel with.
NASA seems to put the customer first, But I have not run any events. I have looked at the schedule and car counts for Sebring. SCCA gets more cars for sure, but the actual tracktime is a little less for NASA.
Cost about the same.
I see a real opportunity for Mazda to grab the NASA hand and add some exposure ...
I may go back to SCCA eventually, only if my Son can get a better return or experience. Now I will go any place else. We run the Vette club solos , they are fast, appreciate the cash and help that we extend , and are friendly!! Imagine that!! Some damp days, we get 30 runs!!!
NutDriverRighty
New member
To the best of my knowledge, flaggers ARE officials. We aren't stewards, but by the GCR definition, we are officials. There was an incident at T5 at Road Atlanta last year where a driver made an error in judgement that caused a class leader to hit the wall driver's right at 5A at nearly WOT. I was very upset, especially since my partner was looking the guy in the face and telling him to hold his position. He ignored the instructions and backed into traffic, causing a multi-car crash. I called my Flag Chief and she said that I could if I wanted. Instead, I approached the drivers involved and told the primary victim that if he wanted to file a protest, that my partner and I would be happy to give face-to-face "testimony" as to the events. The crew chief for the driver "at fault" approached me and said that it was a rookie mistake and that I saw him apologize to all involved and he was noticably distraught. Either way, my partner and I had to write and submit an incident report that was submitted to the stewards for their review. IIRC, he was penalized by finishing position for the incident, but nothing additional.
To make a long post somewhat longer. Yes, I do believe that we can protest as race officials. Secondly, if it is an incident on track, we are almost always asked to give a written report ASAP after the incident for the stewards to review.
Scott Franklin
To make a long post somewhat longer. Yes, I do believe that we can protest as race officials. Secondly, if it is an incident on track, we are almost always asked to give a written report ASAP after the incident for the stewards to review.
Scott Franklin
GCR 8.3.1, "The right to protest shall rest with any entrant, driver, organization, or official taking part in the competition in question."
GCR 5.x, "OFFICIALS, THEIR DUTIES, OPERATING PROCEDURES, AND EQUIPMENT"
GCR 5.5, "FLAGGING AND COMMUNICATIONS"
GCR 5.5.4, "Corner Stations"
There was a protest of a driver at LRP in '06 by an F&C personnel, who thought the driver was taking a dangerous wet line through the corner. In the end it was "nollied", but illustrated that "flaggers" can most certainly protest drivers... - GA
shwah
New member
To take this further off topic.
I agree that a flagger is permitted to file a protest. However, a flagger protesting my line would really tick me off. If you are not driving the car, you have no idea what is or is not working between that drivers seat and the racing surface. Now if that line results in an incident, this is a different story.
I actually had a situation this year when a flagger called in that I was taking a 'dangerous' line through his corner, because I placed the inside two tires in the grass every time by. Had a conversation with the black flag steward before my victory lap, and just nodded my head to get on to impound and get out of the race car sooner on a hot July afternoon. However, unless they make a change in the supps, I can take any damn line I please (within the 'racing rules of the road'), provided I do not leave the racing surface, and re-enter, and gain an advantage by doing so. So by the rule I need to make sure I drive on the racing surface at each corner, which I was doing. Granted in most cases this approach is not ideal, but on that corner of that course on that day it worked best to use about 36" of the racing surface for my car. I have since changed this practice to only use the good line there when neccessary - and did use it twice at my next race at the track when lapped traffic did not leave room to come through with 4 (well I guess 3) on the pavement.
I agree that a flagger is permitted to file a protest. However, a flagger protesting my line would really tick me off. If you are not driving the car, you have no idea what is or is not working between that drivers seat and the racing surface. Now if that line results in an incident, this is a different story.
I actually had a situation this year when a flagger called in that I was taking a 'dangerous' line through his corner, because I placed the inside two tires in the grass every time by. Had a conversation with the black flag steward before my victory lap, and just nodded my head to get on to impound and get out of the race car sooner on a hot July afternoon. However, unless they make a change in the supps, I can take any damn line I please (within the 'racing rules of the road'), provided I do not leave the racing surface, and re-enter, and gain an advantage by doing so. So by the rule I need to make sure I drive on the racing surface at each corner, which I was doing. Granted in most cases this approach is not ideal, but on that corner of that course on that day it worked best to use about 36" of the racing surface for my car. I have since changed this practice to only use the good line there when neccessary - and did use it twice at my next race at the track when lapped traffic did not leave room to come through with 4 (well I guess 3) on the pavement.
In that case, I'll need $50. No, strike that. The GM top has me tee'd off because it doesn't appear to meet the spirit of the rules either. I'll pay 50% of the initial fee. On March 2, 2008, I'll check with local dealers and Pontiac HQ as to the availability of the part. If it isn't available to the public, paper will be filed at Summit.
Already covered, but shoot - I'd even enter the bloody event to gain standing for this one.
The hardtop should have been tossed to be consistent with the CoA ruling on the Mazda. Nothing I hate more than hypocrisy.
re
rotesting a "line" - flaggers can do that, but, and I've said it before, they would be foolish to do so.re: 2-wheels in the grass... Hmmmm, I'm thinking that the GCR clearly defines the racing surface and it doesn't include the grass.
9.1.4. Off-Course Excursions
The driver is required to follow the pavement or marked course during a competition, and shall not gain an advantage from an off-course excursion. Unless otherwise provided by Supplementary Regulations , whenever a driver leaves an artificially marked course or an airport circuit with all four (4) wheels, he shall re-enter the course at the same spot where he went off, and cannot simply re-enter further down the course, subject to the directions of the Corner Worker controlling re-entry.
So, it putting two wheels in the grass was the fast line, you gained an advantage and are in violation of 9.1.4. (note to the GCR gnomes cleaning up language... define off-course excursion).
Reading this, it appears that the GCR has no requirement that you "reenter" where you exited on a natural terrain course. The reentry regulations have to do with airport and parking lot courses.
Then again, it would be pretty CS to protest someone over this.
To clarify (I should have done this above) the "line" that the flagger protested was one that was a wide rimshot around the outside of the corner, well off the normal dry line, and placed the driver heading straight for the corner station, rather than obliquely, and it made the corner personnel nervous. The F&C guy tried to get the Chief Stew to black flag the driver to ask him to change his line, the CS refused; thus the F&C guy protested.re
So, there really was more to this than "I didn't like the line he was taking"...but, still an illustration that F&C *can* protest. - GA
Back on topic (not that there is anything wrong with tangential posting...):
After some discussions in the secret underground world of leaked half-truths, I'm starting to get the aroma of some "SCCA Pro" issues between SCCA and Mazda that seem to have leaked over and are stinking up the SCCA Club Racing club house. Don't know about you, but I'll be royally pissed if ANY of this issue between SCCA and Mazda is due to problems in the Pro series. Think "tail wagging dog". I'm not even sure which end of the "dog" is which, at this point. If any of this is the case, both Mazda and the BOD/Pro Racing have some apologizing to do to club racers. Neither party is an "innocent" victim here.
Contact your director. Give them DIRECTION. They (supposedly) work for us.
After some discussions in the secret underground world of leaked half-truths, I'm starting to get the aroma of some "SCCA Pro" issues between SCCA and Mazda that seem to have leaked over and are stinking up the SCCA Club Racing club house. Don't know about you, but I'll be royally pissed if ANY of this issue between SCCA and Mazda is due to problems in the Pro series. Think "tail wagging dog". I'm not even sure which end of the "dog" is which, at this point. If any of this is the case, both Mazda and the BOD/Pro Racing have some apologizing to do to club racers. Neither party is an "innocent" victim here.
Contact your director. Give them DIRECTION. They (supposedly) work for us.
THANK YOU! All of you people that make the SCCA such a fantastic place to be on race weekends. I have never thought of you as "Weekend Kings" or egomaniacs.
I mostly race in Central Florida, Carolina, and South Florida. From my school at Sebring 4 years ago to last weekends Turkey Trot, Flaggers, Registrars and Stewards have been fantastic.
Sincerely,
Neal Norton
I mostly race in Central Florida, Carolina, and South Florida. From my school at Sebring 4 years ago to last weekends Turkey Trot, Flaggers, Registrars and Stewards have been fantastic.
Sincerely,
Neal Norton
shwah
New member
In that case, I'll need $50. No, strike that. The GM top has me tee'd off because it doesn't appear to meet the spirit of the rules either. I'll pay 50% of the initial fee. On March 2, 2008, I'll check with local dealers and Pontiac HQ as to the availability of the part. If it isn't available to the public, paper will be filed at Summit.
Already covered, but shoot - I'd even enter the bloody event to gain standing for this one.
The hardtop should have been tossed to be consistent with the CoA ruling on the Mazda. Nothing I hate more than hypocrisy.
re
re: 2-wheels in the grass... Hmmmm, I'm thinking that the GCR clearly defines the racing surface and it doesn't include the grass.
9.1.4. Off-Course Excursions
The driver is required to follow the pavement or marked course during a competition, and shall not gain an advantage from an off-course excursion. Unless otherwise provided by Supplementary Regulations , whenever a driver leaves an artificially marked course or an airport circuit with all four (4) wheels, he shall re-enter the course at the same spot where he went off, and cannot simply re-enter further down the course, subject to the directions of the Corner Worker controlling re-entry.
So, it putting two wheels in the grass was the fast line, you gained an advantage and are in violation of 9.1.4. (note to the GCR gnomes cleaning up language... define off-course excursion).
Reading this, it appears that the GCR has no requirement that you "reenter" where you exited on a natural terrain course. The reentry regulations have to do with airport and parking lot courses.
Then again, it would be pretty CS to protest someone over this.
[/b]
As long as I have a wheel on the racing surface, I have not left the racing surface, and have not made an off course excursion. I am in fact very much ON the course. This can be modified in supplemental regs for a specific event if someone wants to prevent it, but the words written above do not prevent me from driving every corner with two wheels 4 feet in the grass, or dirt, or whatever is present inside (or outside) the curbing.
Huzzah!
I got black flagged at Portland a hundred years ago for driving over the curbs. The steward told me (I was on my Nervice logbook at the time) that they could "pitch me out of control." I shared a line that I'd stolen from a Renault Cup guy I really respected - "When I paid my entry fee, I figured I'd rented the WHOLE track." Luckily I was smiling when I said it, because he wasn't there for a second.
K
seckerich
New member
Just a little update to get this thread back on track. The wording in this email makes me feel more like a customer than a share holder. To me that is the root of the problem.
To: Regional Executives
From: Jim Julow, President & CEO SCCA
Date: 11/28/2007
Subject: Mazda & SCCA
Based on some recent e-mails, it would appear that some of you may be receiving inquiries regarding SCCA's business relationship with Mazda. For some background--about two weeks ago, Mazda sent out a survey to its Mazdaspeed members. In the cover letter was a suggestion that responders may want to include the SCCA headquarters and Board of Directors as part of their feedback. To date, we have received about 35 e-mails addressed to me or the BOD. What follows is the statement we are sending to acknowledge receipt of the e-mail.
"Thank you for your input. We at SCCA clearly understand the position and importance of Mazda in the grassroots racing community and, in particular, its support for our racers that drive Mazda products. To that end, since the issues with the MSR package occurred earlier this summer, the SCCA has been working to resolve its differences with Mazda. However, with various public and private comments made by Mazda in recent weeks, it is clear that there is much more work to be done. The plan is for SCCA to meet with Mazda personnel again in the very near future. We are committed to doing everything we can to repair the damage and put both companies on a road to the outstanding relationship and partnership that we have enjoyed in the past.
We all have a common goal-the betterment of SCCA, and in situations like this, we need and appreciate the support of the members for which the Club exists."
To: Regional Executives
From: Jim Julow, President & CEO SCCA
Date: 11/28/2007
Subject: Mazda & SCCA
Based on some recent e-mails, it would appear that some of you may be receiving inquiries regarding SCCA's business relationship with Mazda. For some background--about two weeks ago, Mazda sent out a survey to its Mazdaspeed members. In the cover letter was a suggestion that responders may want to include the SCCA headquarters and Board of Directors as part of their feedback. To date, we have received about 35 e-mails addressed to me or the BOD. What follows is the statement we are sending to acknowledge receipt of the e-mail.
"Thank you for your input. We at SCCA clearly understand the position and importance of Mazda in the grassroots racing community and, in particular, its support for our racers that drive Mazda products. To that end, since the issues with the MSR package occurred earlier this summer, the SCCA has been working to resolve its differences with Mazda. However, with various public and private comments made by Mazda in recent weeks, it is clear that there is much more work to be done. The plan is for SCCA to meet with Mazda personnel again in the very near future. We are committed to doing everything we can to repair the damage and put both companies on a road to the outstanding relationship and partnership that we have enjoyed in the past.
We all have a common goal-the betterment of SCCA, and in situations like this, we need and appreciate the support of the members for which the Club exists."