You put a HANS device though a sled test it will have a life span of about 120 milliseconds.
Time to write those letters - Head and Neck Restraints
- Thread starter pitbull113
- Start date
Racerlinn
New member
I'm fully behind the idea of having your H&NR recertified after a wreck - hell you can put it in my logbook that such docs are required along with repairs at the next event.
but the amount of perishable equipment both on the car and the driver has reached absurd levels. seat (if following FIA), H&NR, window net, belts, helmet,... best case you're looking at ~$1500 every 5 years, with an additional 500+ every 10 (hat). and that's for the low-end FIA and SFI certified stuff. it's equivalent to reducing your entries by at least one a year IF you budget 5 years at a time. more than likely, it's going to result in a "bye year" every fifth year for a large percentage of the potential entrants. we have enough trouble getting guys back after taking a year off (for whatever) already. what will the fields look like in 6 years?
if regulated minima or driver's personal safety standards or needs put better than baseline equipment in the mix, the number can spiral to $10k+ over 5-10 years REALLY quickly.
and forget attracting new folks, particularly the younger crowd. car cost is approaching required gear costs. (assuming guys start getting out and the cost of strong, built cars drops a bit to the $3-4k range)
I hope I'm wrong
but the amount of perishable equipment both on the car and the driver has reached absurd levels. seat (if following FIA), H&NR, window net, belts, helmet,... best case you're looking at ~$1500 every 5 years, with an additional 500+ every 10 (hat). and that's for the low-end FIA and SFI certified stuff. it's equivalent to reducing your entries by at least one a year IF you budget 5 years at a time. more than likely, it's going to result in a "bye year" every fifth year for a large percentage of the potential entrants. we have enough trouble getting guys back after taking a year off (for whatever) already. what will the fields look like in 6 years?
if regulated minima or driver's personal safety standards or needs put better than baseline equipment in the mix, the number can spiral to $10k+ over 5-10 years REALLY quickly.
and forget attracting new folks, particularly the younger crowd. car cost is approaching required gear costs. (assuming guys start getting out and the cost of strong, built cars drops a bit to the $3-4k range)
I hope I'm wrong
Last edited:
Russ Myers
New member
throw in the tire and fuel bills, it's easy to see why more are not coming out anymore.
Russ
Russ
gran racing
Super Moderator
I've asked this before but will again. How many successful law suits have there been for an organization now mandating HNRs? There are several hundred amateur motorsports sanctioning bodies in the U.S. (extending beyond our road racing bubble) that do not currently require this. Is that data out there or has been presented?
Racerlinn
New member
I got my "your letter was reviewed" return email yesterday.
If this required recert process is approved, I have now officially gone past my tipping point. I don't like golf. My friends have boats. I'm going to need to find a new hobby. Maybe it's time to build up a lo-cost in the garage and work on my welding skills.
i have been looking at bikes (used to have a 650 yamaha) and airplanes (used to fly with my Dad in his piper cub);
so a $3-4,000 bike and go on a trip out west:
http://www.transalp.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=2612
or a $30,000 airplane (or most likely rent as necessary.....)
http://www.theplaneexchange.com/listman/listings/l0092.html
gran racing
Super Moderator
Because I’m such a big SFI fan and agree that there needs to be some certification process for head & neck restrain systems, I gave SNELL a call. As of now, they do not have plans of getting into this type of testing or certification. They stated that one of the issues is a better understanding of testing cervical stress tolerances and what truly are the best methods to test this. He stated that many (not just people within SNELL) are not satisfied that this is truly the best way to complete the testing. This was just a phone conversation we had and should not be taken as an official SNELL stance on the subject.
Head injury continues to be their focus, but they would forward proposals / requests to their directors to consider. Probably a long shot but one never knows especially if this came from SCCA BOD. At least this organization appears to be impartial and would be a great alternative to SFI.
Head injury continues to be their focus, but they would forward proposals / requests to their directors to consider. Probably a long shot but one never knows especially if this came from SCCA BOD. At least this organization appears to be impartial and would be a great alternative to SFI.
JLawton
New member
pitbull113
New member
From what i've heard as of tuesday night it is out of the CRB's hands and up to the BOD. All letters should be directed to them. I'm sending the same letter to all members of the BOD and I hope all interested parties will do the same.
http://www.scca.com/contentpage.aspx?content=89 this is the page with the link to e-mail all BOD members. Have at it guys and spread the word to others that don't come to this forum.
http://www.scca.com/contentpage.aspx?content=89 this is the page with the link to e-mail all BOD members. Have at it guys and spread the word to others that don't come to this forum.
JeffYoung
New member
anthony1k
New member
OT but since escalating costs were brought up. Has anyone priced an AMB transponders lately? $399 was the lowest I've seen. I found the receipt for the one I bought in 2005, $259. Same exact gizmo, several boatloads sold since then, one would expect prices to fall not rise by over 50%. Isn't this the most blatant example of gouging racers?
it's the definition of monopolistic practices, but fails the "monopoly" test as there ARE competitors. they just aren't used by any of the major clubs or sactioning bodies we play with.
That's called an "oligopoly", e.g., OPEC.
I stand corrected, thanks!
I am but a second class wordsmith, but I am always learning.
gran racing
Super Moderator
It's much the same in the HNR sector. SFI & FIA.
Thoughts that need to be overcome, and not just letters of support. There are two parts, one requiring a HNR at all and then if so, the standards being used. Using this as a discussion board, how can some of these fears be put to rest?
The biggest is the fear of the club being sued and costing the club significant costs. What can the club and BOD do to protect itself? It's more than just "this is silly and will cost racers" although the added cost for member should be a factor.
The other problem I see is a lack of voices from membership being heard, although it's not unlike many other social issues. Overall, there's a small group of people that are actually speaking up even if the consensus is that members don't like this rule.
Thoughts that need to be overcome, and not just letters of support. There are two parts, one requiring a HNR at all and then if so, the standards being used. Using this as a discussion board, how can some of these fears be put to rest?
The biggest is the fear of the club being sued and costing the club significant costs. What can the club and BOD do to protect itself? It's more than just "this is silly and will cost racers" although the added cost for member should be a factor.
The other problem I see is a lack of voices from membership being heard, although it's not unlike many other social issues. Overall, there's a small group of people that are actually speaking up even if the consensus is that members don't like this rule.
it seems to come down to "how do i grow my business?" as K has alluded to in the past.....
first of all, one has to have a demand for the product..... so it helps to have demand driven by the sanctioning bodies via rules. but what do you do after that demand is met? it is not like the product wears out from actual use. so you have to have it "age" out....
it is starting to remind of big pharma and drugs like lipitor, etc. it is quite profitable to have a product that folks need to take every day or even every few years and so on.
so you either have a sinking fund and drop one entry per year from your schedule to compensate or take a year off every few, etc. personally, i have a hard time putting money in the bank each year with the idea that i will spend it on the car later..... it is more likely that it will turn into fresher tires, stiffer springs, more track time, etc. every year.
then when the trifecta of belts, H&NR, helmet comes due, perhpas take a year off. and when you take a year off, it is likely to be harder to come back the next year, etc.
first of all, one has to have a demand for the product..... so it helps to have demand driven by the sanctioning bodies via rules. but what do you do after that demand is met? it is not like the product wears out from actual use. so you have to have it "age" out....
it is starting to remind of big pharma and drugs like lipitor, etc. it is quite profitable to have a product that folks need to take every day or even every few years and so on.
so you either have a sinking fund and drop one entry per year from your schedule to compensate or take a year off every few, etc. personally, i have a hard time putting money in the bank each year with the idea that i will spend it on the car later..... it is more likely that it will turn into fresher tires, stiffer springs, more track time, etc. every year.
then when the trifecta of belts, H&NR, helmet comes due, perhpas take a year off. and when you take a year off, it is likely to be harder to come back the next year, etc.
Their not talking.