IT National? Anyone else have this experience at a driver's meeting this year?

I know that's going to get some people riled up at me: "Why isn't Knestis representing OUR views on the ITAC?"

Because "the ITAC should recommend what it thinks is best for IT."
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:happy204:

Can a good ITAC member represent what the membership wants within debate on a topic AND vote the other way because they think that is the way to vote for any number of reasons (good/bad for IT - good/bad for Club Racing, etc)?
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yes.
 
...so if an ITAC member thinks it's best for IT that it get National status, Travis is all over it.

K

EDIT - Sorry, ;)
 
if it's a part of removing regional/nationl status across the club, yes.

i'm also not so arrogant to think i am all knowing about club racing issues. i do think i'm fairly well versed on this particular one, but you guys have been around far longer than i have, and are 10x more immersed in the whole thing. i recognize that, and i would hope you guys do also. i think all that can be reasonably expected of the ITAC is that they approach the issues with an open mind, and give due consideration to the letters they receive, posts they read, and combine with their own experience and knowledge to make the most well informed decision they can.

the masses aren't always right. ie....Spec Toyo debacle in SM.

i still think the open ECU rule was a mistake, and if IT gains national status on it's own i will still think that's a mistake, but i'm not going to throw a temper tantrum about it. racing isn't my whole life (or really much of it).
 
Since we (the masses of IT, the unwashed of IT, the rank and file of IT) didn't vote you in to the ranks of Semi Grand Poobahs, and you were appointed / selected, by the PTBs, I would say you can do damn well what you please. If we are unhappy all we can do is take it out on the one particular BOD member that we have a vote on.:eek:

I would suggest that the only reason the ITAC has stroke now is because the rest of the PTB has little interest as long as they are not bothered by IT. Just wait....... ahhhhh RunOffs fallout..... just the tonic to bring out new interest from all directions.
 
Travis, you have to get your license current for it to be part of your life!:D

If I give out at SP next month and you aren't there for relief it is going to be bad for your reputation.:rolleyes:
 
yeah...i'm thinking about running at the end of this month.

i have a couple house projects going on, and getting a street miata street-worthy, but after that, we'll see what kind of money i have left. :)
 
tnord said:
yeah...i'm thinking about running at the end of this month.

i have a couple house projects going on, and getting a street miata (s)track(eet)-worthy, but after that, we'll see what kind of money i have left. :)
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Hey Travis,

Fix that for you:D

James

I don't know how they do it in your region, but you should try working some of the races you don't run. It's a great way to stay involved.
 
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Knestis said:
Because "the ITAC should recommend what it thinks is best for IT."
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Andy Bettencourt said:
Can a good ITAC member represent what the membership wants within debate on a topic AND vote the other way because they think that is the way to vote for any number of reasons (good/bad for IT - good/bad for Club Racing, etc) or is the job of a good ITAC member to just throw his vote behind a pure local majority on a topic?
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I would have to agree with the first statement. The second would be an ITAC member that is willing to compromise the category for the sake of the club. That type of decision is for the CRB (and BOD) to decide. The ITAC should focus on what is good for IT. There are plenty of other people that can (or at least should) be watching out for club racing but there is only one group that is focused on IT. If the ITAC doesn't watch out for IT no one else will.

So to answer your question, an ITAC member should judge what is best for IT. It may not be popular but if it's not then the decision probably hasn't been explained well. But they absolutely should not be watching out for club racing at the possible expense to IT.
 
IPRESS said:
I would suggest that the only reason the ITAC has stroke now is because the rest of the PTB has little interest as long as they are not bothered by IT. Just wait....... ahhhhh RunOffs fallout..... just the tonic to bring out new interest from all directions.
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You know it is possible that a couple of years ago the CRB might have neglected the ITAC because they had bigger fish to fry but now that the great realignment has taken place and IT is working so well I think the CRB has some pride of ownership.
I told a CRB member and all around PTB that there seemed to be some IT racers who were negative to the concept of going nation because there might be more pressure to screw up the IT rule set like has happened with Prod. He was flabbergasted and exclaimed that they would not let that happen as IT is one of the things the CRB had done really well.
The point being that the CRB has some ownership of IT’s success.
As I debate the idea of going national I have one thought I am not proud of. I really like IT. I think the rules and the competition is very very good. When I read some posts on the Prod board I am annoyed by the entitlement attitude about their legacy class and their condescending attitude about IT, and I think how irrelevant they would be if IT went national.
 
Ironic that the history of IT is rooted firmly in the fact that when the IT rules were first introduced, they were a flashback to what the Production rules had been when THEY were new. IT going National and finally displacing Production classes would be the closing of the motor sports circle of life...

K
 
dickita15 said:

The point being that the CRB has some ownership of IT’s success.
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I want to expand on this a little more. The CRB has a LOT to do with the success of IT. When the SIR mess hit with the BMW, I was able to point out that the ITAC 'just recommends' and it wasn't our recommendation. That goes both ways. The CRB has also approved all of the SUCCESSES that you have seen.

4 years ago when I was asked to join, the message was that the CRB was really going to lean on the AC's and were going to be given a much longer leash for day to day operations. Without that type of thinking, we would no be where we are today (good or bad, your call).

I really like the current make up of the CRB and they deserve a lot of credit. I have been in on some discussions about other classes and how to 'fix' them - and have even tried to help them develop a classification process. All I can tell you is that I do not envy them for one second. It is a rediculously hard job with many forces pulling you in many directions. It's almost like you have to blow it up and start from scratch...

Either way, the point is to give credit where credit is due. I am proud of the job the ITAC has done, but without the CRB, we would have spun our wheels.
 
Knestis said:
Yeah - it's wouldn't be easy to police legality of IT cars in a National arena. Just like it isn't easy NOW, and isn't easy to police other categories at high-stakes events. To ask it to be easy, or to hold programmatic changes ransom to a demand that it be easy (or else!), doesn't strike me as very fair.
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Could some "gray area" legality right now, in the region only status, be ignored to a degree because we are racing for a $15 trophy? What will happen to that if it were to go National? What kind of doors is that going to open and what kind of enforcement issues will we have? It goes back again to the fear of the unknown? IT National would definitely push those "gray areas" straight into the black and white.
 
Andy Bettencourt said:
This is an interesting comment. If the ARRC and the ITFest get as popular as the Runoffs, then I submit that any reasoning for not going 'National' is 100% moot.
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A slow walk up the mountain teaches you a lot more about that mountain then a helicopter ride straight to the top. :shrug:
 
Andy Bettencourt said:
All I can tell you is that I do not envy them for one second. It is a rediculously hard job with many forces pulling you in many directions. It's almost like you have to blow it up and start from scratch...
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I don't think that it's almost like that. I think it is like that. The National system is a microsoft-based machine. There have been about 2474 service packs to fix the bugs with more on the way. With that many patches, it's slow, clunky and takes up way to many resources. At some point, you need to bite the bullet, get rid of National System V1.2474, and install National System V2.0.

IT is like Linux. It's fast, it's efficent. People love it and there's a bunch of eunuchs involved.
 
yea, I was thinking about the CRB last night...I have been lucky enough to be friends with a few CRB guys over the years. Kurt Weiss, who handed the reins over a few years ago, (and introduced me to Bob Dowie) and now, Bob Dowie, and Peter Keane.

Bob Dowie:
CRB Grand Poobah...
Travels all over the country several times each year for SCCA meetings....
Drives a race car....
Owns a busy repair shop...
meets with his accountant....
runs a Tuesday night dyno club...
builds his race car...
married...
On every CRB con call. (ack, THOSE can't be short, LOL)
On every ITAC call....
On another AC call...
On BoD calls
Is the "axle' for all the political crappola in the SCCA...
Has kids...
And a classic "Call it as he sees it" guy.

(and that's just what I know of..)

yet, when you meet him, you'd never see any inkling that he's stressed out, LOL. Sheeeit, I would be if I were him!

Dick, I am REALLY happy to hear that there is some pride in ownership on the CRB's part. I know two members of the CRB (Peter Keane and Chris Albin) that have been instrumental in the category's recent history, and I think that the CRB members (like Stan Clayton and Bob Dowie) have provided excellent guidance and insight to the ITAC.
 
dickita15 said:
When I read some posts on the Prod board I am annoyed by the entitlement attitude about their legacy class and their condescending attitude about IT, and I think how irrelevant they would be if IT went national.
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tch tch tch, LOL..

And when I read the board, I just chuckle at the same posts. OK, I roll my eyes too. And sometimes mumble under my breath..
 
Well usually I do not comment on these issues. But I have got to add that if IT goes national, manufacturers will be more interested in the class. Which then gets them meddling in the rules process. You all may remember Mazda having a hissy about the showroom stock rules and a subsequent comment made by a fed up BOD or CRB member. You may not like it but this club is a politcal animal. A couple years ago in GT, Toyota pushed and got annular discharge injection OK'd. Many had asked and we were always told to dangerous. Without member input in some back door deal, Toyota got it pushed thru because of "packaging issues". To say the GT community was pissed is an understatement. The BOD and the CRB both get swayed when shmoosed by an OEM. It shouldn't happen but it does. Personally I hope IT goes national. Then IT can be the National offices piggy bank and they can screw with your rules daily as they see fit. I think if we lose the regional/national distinction you will see an overall drop in total interest in the club. I believe NASA will be far more attractive to many. So whats in the best interest of the club?
Chris Howard
 
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