ITS Ford Mustang(s) Build - Stripper Stang Part II
- Thread starter Ron Earp
- Start date
lateapex911
Super Moderator
Ron, first, good luck with your surgery! Hope it's kinda minor.
Second, I just saw your weight query. I can't remember your target weight. But, I have been figuring that you'll be over about 120 when you're all said and done.
Second, I just saw your weight query. I can't remember your target weight. But, I have been figuring that you'll be over about 120 when you're all said and done.
Ron Earp
Administrator
I hope it is minor too - just a tumor removal on my shoulder and it is supposedly non-cancerous. Should be in and out in an afternoon.
Got some great exhaust work done today at R&J in Apex. They made the y-pipe transition flow in a smoother fashion and tucked everything up so that no part of the exhaust is low hanging. I've got 3.5" to 4" plus inches everywhere on the exhaust and that is the lowest part of the car. The car should be easy to load/unload and shouldn't drag anything on the track. Still have to get back under there and wrap everything up.
I also had Robert make me a side exit exhaust with catalytic converter so it can pass inspection. No real reason for an IT car to not be street legal, given we've got dual purpose rules in mind and everyone is driving to the track with their race car.
I'll slap that on once a year to maintain my registration. NC just scans the OBDII port and looks for codes, they won't find any since all that stuff is turned off, and they a visual inspection for the cat, which they'll see.
You didn't forget the ITS spec weight is 2470 lbs and of course that is with driver? Nope, we aren't going to come close to that despite our best efforts. I'm not really worried as the motor is a) in a really conservative tune from Ford and should have been around 160 to 165 hp, which would equal 2700+ lbs; and b) I feel pretty confident we'll zoutperform the 25% gain that is the standard.
Got some great exhaust work done today at R&J in Apex. They made the y-pipe transition flow in a smoother fashion and tucked everything up so that no part of the exhaust is low hanging. I've got 3.5" to 4" plus inches everywhere on the exhaust and that is the lowest part of the car. The car should be easy to load/unload and shouldn't drag anything on the track. Still have to get back under there and wrap everything up.
I also had Robert make me a side exit exhaust with catalytic converter so it can pass inspection. No real reason for an IT car to not be street legal, given we've got dual purpose rules in mind and everyone is driving to the track with their race car.
I'll slap that on once a year to maintain my registration. NC just scans the OBDII port and looks for codes, they won't find any since all that stuff is turned off, and they a visual inspection for the cat, which they'll see.
You didn't forget the ITS spec weight is 2470 lbs and of course that is with driver? Nope, we aren't going to come close to that despite our best efforts. I'm not really worried as the motor is a) in a really conservative tune from Ford and should have been around 160 to 165 hp, which would equal 2700+ lbs; and b) I feel pretty confident we'll zoutperform the 25% gain that is the standard.
Ron Earp
Administrator
Since weight is a big concern, and we know we're going to be quite a bit over the bogus spec weight, I've been keeping track of optional items that we could ditch to lose weight.
Here I weighed all the gauges, panel, switches, wire, camera, and so on of the data acquisition/video system. Not nearly as high as you might think, 4.5 lbs.
Here I weighed all the gauges, panel, switches, wire, camera, and so on of the data acquisition/video system. Not nearly as high as you might think, 4.5 lbs.
Ron Earp
Administrator
I got most of the main panel done this morning. Tire pressure monitor works, and from a long distance from the tires too, about 20 ft to the furthermost tire. The tire pressure monitor is neat in that you can create set points at which the display color will change, for example, the tire pressure is shown in red over say 40 psi.
Next up is the car harnesses. I've already built them on the bench but they must be installed.
Next up is the car harnesses. I've already built them on the bench but they must be installed.
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Ron, what wire crimpers are you using?
LOL
LOL
I'm picturing countermeasure spoofs to turn all of your tire pressures to blinking red zeros when you are lapping me.
K
Ron Earp
Administrator
I haven't felt all that wonderful after my surgery, but I slept about five hours this afternoon and felt much better. Once I got up I managed to put a few hours in on the car. Nothing strenuous, just a bit of graphics work and wiring.
As far as crimpers and tools for wiring this is what I use. The best tool is that proper crimper there that does blue/red/yellow crimps. Everything else, like the connectors in the weatherpak connectors, I solder.
Sydney popped in the garage and took a couple of rare photos of me in my natural environment. I wore my PJs all day, including while wiring in the garage. Quite comfy.
I like the fact the car is roomy inside and the entire passenger area is open. While it isn't a big car by normal standards, it is huge by IT rule. When it was being off loaded from the trailer the other day it seems that it is a good 6" to maybe 12" wider than most ITS cars that I've been around.
I managed to cut a few sheets of graphics in orange and silver. Logos for Hoosier, engine decals, tow, Buell stickers for my bike, stripes, and some other stuff for the number 57 ITS car that is new for 2012.....
As far as crimpers and tools for wiring this is what I use. The best tool is that proper crimper there that does blue/red/yellow crimps. Everything else, like the connectors in the weatherpak connectors, I solder.
Sydney popped in the garage and took a couple of rare photos of me in my natural environment. I wore my PJs all day, including while wiring in the garage. Quite comfy.
I like the fact the car is roomy inside and the entire passenger area is open. While it isn't a big car by normal standards, it is huge by IT rule. When it was being off loaded from the trailer the other day it seems that it is a good 6" to maybe 12" wider than most ITS cars that I've been around.
I managed to cut a few sheets of graphics in orange and silver. Logos for Hoosier, engine decals, tow, Buell stickers for my bike, stripes, and some other stuff for the number 57 ITS car that is new for 2012.....
glad to see it, figured you would be... If you gotta crimp, it's gotta be one of those.
lateapex911
Super Moderator
You look a lot better after YOUR surgery than I did after mine!!!
Not that I could have stopped anyone, (honestly, i couldn't even adjust the darn hospital bed!) but if I could have, there is no WAY there were any pictures to be taken of me!
And if I were putting decals on my car the day after, I assure you they would be illegible, LOL.
Good job, great to see you back at it.
Not that I could have stopped anyone, (honestly, i couldn't even adjust the darn hospital bed!) but if I could have, there is no WAY there were any pictures to be taken of me!
And if I were putting decals on my car the day after, I assure you they would be illegible, LOL.
Good job, great to see you back at it.
Ron Earp
Administrator
Feeling much better, almost 100%.
I got mucho more wiring done and tested. The panel was installed, checked for drains and so on, all good as I knew it would be. So, I continued with the fab work and now it is completely done and tested. Notice the power mirror switch - yep, the mirrors will work when connected.
I questioned keeping the power mirrors but when I took them off the car I couldn't believe how little they weighed. The entire assembly is light weight plastic with a tiny motor, 1.2 lbs each. The glass is paper thin that is mounted to a thin plastic substrate. So, if you got to have mirrors the stock ones are pretty good. Now, considering aero they might have to go but that remains to be seen.
Still, the mirrors are on our weight reduction at all costs list. Other items that populate that list are the engine fan, data/camera/gauges, wiper motor (EDIT - THE WIPER MOTOR CAN UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES BE REMOVED FROM AN IT CAR, THEREFORE, IT IS NOW REMOVED FROM OUR WEIGHT REDUCTION AT ALL COSTS LIST), fan blower motor, fire system, and cool suit plus some other odds and ends. Clearly some of those things you'd like to have, but if 40 lbs is the difference between competitive and non-competitive we could toss that stuff.
I got mucho more wiring done and tested. The panel was installed, checked for drains and so on, all good as I knew it would be. So, I continued with the fab work and now it is completely done and tested. Notice the power mirror switch - yep, the mirrors will work when connected.
I questioned keeping the power mirrors but when I took them off the car I couldn't believe how little they weighed. The entire assembly is light weight plastic with a tiny motor, 1.2 lbs each. The glass is paper thin that is mounted to a thin plastic substrate. So, if you got to have mirrors the stock ones are pretty good. Now, considering aero they might have to go but that remains to be seen.
Still, the mirrors are on our weight reduction at all costs list. Other items that populate that list are the engine fan, data/camera/gauges, wiper motor (EDIT - THE WIPER MOTOR CAN UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES BE REMOVED FROM AN IT CAR, THEREFORE, IT IS NOW REMOVED FROM OUR WEIGHT REDUCTION AT ALL COSTS LIST), fan blower motor, fire system, and cool suit plus some other odds and ends. Clearly some of those things you'd like to have, but if 40 lbs is the difference between competitive and non-competitive we could toss that stuff.
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JeffYoung
New member
I think we have all seen that 40 lbs is not the difference between competitive and non-competitive. In fact, I would never consider chucking the fire system over weight, and the cool suit (in my opinion) adds competitiveness by keeping you comfortable in the car.
In the past, with the cool suit, there were races where I was dying for the checkered to come out. That doesn't happen now. I'm generally as fresh getting out of the car as getting in.
In the past, with the cool suit, there were races where I was dying for the checkered to come out. That doesn't happen now. I'm generally as fresh getting out of the car as getting in.
Eagle7
New member
Maybe my memory is failing me, but why can you remove the highlighted items?
Ron Earp
Administrator
I too think that 40 lbs isn't going to make or break a car. And I for sure as heck want those items on the list in the car.
I believe we're going to be racing at about 100 lbs heavier than an RX7. I don't think that is too bad from a power perspective as I think we'll have more peak power and area under the curve than those cars, but that remains to be seen.
But the weight on the stang is not good with respect to tire loading. We do not have nearly the balance of an RX7 but we're running the same size tire. My rough calculations show we'll be loading the front tires about 20-25% more than an RX7 thus ultimately we'll high a significantly higher load per square inch of tire.
A larger tire, like a 245, might help. But I just got off the phone with Rodney at App Tire and he says that size on a 7" wheel is problematic. He indicates they used to put them on the BMWs in ITS back in the day but the weird thing was they would not always seat properly on the wheel, sometimes they would seat off center and there was nothing that could be done to correct it. When that happened they were worse off than the 225s and had a wheel/tire that was basically unusable. He advised to not totally rule them out, but be forewarned if they don't mount properly there isn't anything that can be done. However, at only $8 a tire more than the 225s it might be worth looking into for the larger side to side and front to rear contact patch. I'd like to mount one up and chalk it at pressure and under load to measure the actual contact patch.
I asked him about 275s and he says they won't even mount those up for a customer. They're pinched too much on a 7" wheel and he claims the side width tire contact patch will be no better than a 225, although the front to rear contact patch might be larger than a 225. I told him Jeff Y has used them and liked them, but he wasn't sounding too convinced. So I suppose they're off the table for the stangs since they won't mount them anyhow.
Well.....
In my shop manual there is a picture of the air conditioning system and it is the entire manifold, with blower fan, flapper valves, evaporator, etc. I can remove it entirely, or in part. I chose to remove the evaporator but the leave the plastic manifold and blower motor so I'd have some defrost action.
Wiper motors, I've still got mine but I think there is some language coming, or recently put in, that allows removal of wiper blades and systems, including the old faithful washer bottle. Mine is staying, both of them. The washer bottle weighs <1 lb and can become my catch can.
I believe we're going to be racing at about 100 lbs heavier than an RX7. I don't think that is too bad from a power perspective as I think we'll have more peak power and area under the curve than those cars, but that remains to be seen.
But the weight on the stang is not good with respect to tire loading. We do not have nearly the balance of an RX7 but we're running the same size tire. My rough calculations show we'll be loading the front tires about 20-25% more than an RX7 thus ultimately we'll high a significantly higher load per square inch of tire.
A larger tire, like a 245, might help. But I just got off the phone with Rodney at App Tire and he says that size on a 7" wheel is problematic. He indicates they used to put them on the BMWs in ITS back in the day but the weird thing was they would not always seat properly on the wheel, sometimes they would seat off center and there was nothing that could be done to correct it. When that happened they were worse off than the 225s and had a wheel/tire that was basically unusable. He advised to not totally rule them out, but be forewarned if they don't mount properly there isn't anything that can be done. However, at only $8 a tire more than the 225s it might be worth looking into for the larger side to side and front to rear contact patch. I'd like to mount one up and chalk it at pressure and under load to measure the actual contact patch.
I asked him about 275s and he says they won't even mount those up for a customer. They're pinched too much on a 7" wheel and he claims the side width tire contact patch will be no better than a 225, although the front to rear contact patch might be larger than a 225. I told him Jeff Y has used them and liked them, but he wasn't sounding too convinced. So I suppose they're off the table for the stangs since they won't mount them anyhow.
Maybe my memory is failing me, but why can you remove the highlighted items?
Well.....
D.3.e. Air conditioning systems may be removed in whole or in part.
In my shop manual there is a picture of the air conditioning system and it is the entire manifold, with blower fan, flapper valves, evaporator, etc. I can remove it entirely, or in part. I chose to remove the evaporator but the leave the plastic manifold and blower motor so I'd have some defrost action.
Wiper motors, I've still got mine but I think there is some language coming, or recently put in, that allows removal of wiper blades and systems, including the old faithful washer bottle. Mine is staying, both of them. The washer bottle weighs <1 lb and can become my catch can.
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JeffYoung
New member
I think Rodney is the best tire guy in teh world, and App Tire one of the best companies I've ever dealt with.
I also think they are dead wrong about the 275 on the 7" rim. I had mine mounted up by NTB since App wouldn't do it. Clearly affected the grip balance of the car. At Roebling, I had so much rear grip I literally scrubbed brand new front 225s clean -- meaning no tread -- in 2 sessions. I had so much rear grip, I'd get on the throttle and work the fronts so hard it killed them. Car at Roebling was much faster and consistent with 225s all around.
BUT, at CMP where you work the rears so much harder on corner exit, particularly in the carousel, the 275s never built up crazy heat and stayed way more consistent on the rear there.
Only track I will run them is CMP but the work like a charm there, mainly in consistency rather than overall grip. I think they handle the heat better and "stay good" longer.
Sounds like you may have the same issue with your fronts. Go 245 or 275 and see what you get.
I also think they are dead wrong about the 275 on the 7" rim. I had mine mounted up by NTB since App wouldn't do it. Clearly affected the grip balance of the car. At Roebling, I had so much rear grip I literally scrubbed brand new front 225s clean -- meaning no tread -- in 2 sessions. I had so much rear grip, I'd get on the throttle and work the fronts so hard it killed them. Car at Roebling was much faster and consistent with 225s all around.
BUT, at CMP where you work the rears so much harder on corner exit, particularly in the carousel, the 275s never built up crazy heat and stayed way more consistent on the rear there.
Only track I will run them is CMP but the work like a charm there, mainly in consistency rather than overall grip. I think they handle the heat better and "stay good" longer.
Sounds like you may have the same issue with your fronts. Go 245 or 275 and see what you get.
Ron Earp
Administrator
I like App Tire too, but you know me, skeptical unless I do the testing myself. So of course we're going to mount some and chalk them loaded to see if we get a larger contact patch than a 225. If we do then we'll use them. I'd also like to do some rolling friction tests with the larger tires and see how that works out.
JoshS
New member
Read carefully Ron ... all washer systems, but only a rear wiper system may be removed.
Ron Earp
Administrator
Don't worry fellows, we'll take that wiper motor off the list. As I wrote, mine is in the car and isn't going anywhere.
Whew, you fellows do read these build threads don't you - not so much for the build but for procedures, protocols, and rules. Eight pages of Mustang build and nary a peep, a mention of a contemplated rules violation and IT rule misquote - bang, five new posts in a day.
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