Jekyll Secret Meeting

[Catch22]

Here's a fun little exercise.
Lets look at some things Matt has posted just in this thread (if we were to go to others, this would get MUCH worse and I don't even have time to do that) and decide for ourselves what sort of credibility lies within Mr. Matt.

Keep in mind Matt, there are things that YOU have typed. I'm using the quote button, these things are not debateable.

Lets start here...

As far as the physical threat issue that Scott started, I can only say that you're both idiots for resorting to that kind of talk.

Now, lets look at these things direct from Matt's keyboard...

You are a sad little man.

What a bunch of jackasses.

Bunch of retards

assholes like Barry

I've had enough of you losers who want to protect officials at the cost of racers.

Fu*k Alabama! Go Florida!

Again, thats just from this thread and doesn't include things like "blanket party" threats.

Here's the deal Matt. Two things you need to know...

1. Even IF the sky was falling, nobody in their right mind would listen to you because you come across as a raving lunatic.

2. If you talk like the above to just about everyone I know, you WILL get your ass whipped for you. I recommend you stuff a cork in that before someone gets sick of it and gives you your own "blanket party."

I'm just trying to be helpful. If you go to Jekyll and approach people with this sort of attitude, you are going to end up far worse than ignored. Actually, you won't be ignored at all.

But seriously, that Butch SOB is actually behind the whole thing. Barry and Martin are just his puppets (Butch calls them "Number 3" and "Number 4," my organization hasn't figured out who #2 is, but we think it may be a double agent. Shhhhhhhhh... thats top secret).
So really, if you are going to go after someone, Butch (or "Edward?" What is his REAL name... Hmmmmmm?) is your man.

Scott, who is just kidding Matt. Really. Don't get all googly eyed and go after Butch. Really, don't.
But if you do... I need video. Seriously. I'll pay for a copy.

PS - I'm kidding again. Don't actually do that.

PS2 - Am I making fun of him again? Dammit. I'm an ass.

PS3 - Stop sending me PMs Matt. I don't read them.

 

[Mattberg]

Unfortunately you have managed to do exactly what Barry and others involved in this "plan" want. Shoot the messenger and deflect the real issue, which is of importance not only in SEDIV but on a national level. That is, the unchecked ability of an official(s) to operate outside of reasonable guidelines, without accountability and in pursuit of implementing plans detrimental to the division for the benefit of a minority of the division's driver and worker population.

We started by writing letters, making phone calls and seeking information from regional officials. What we were given was most often misinformation and/or lack of response. After numerous deceptions we were given excuses and double talk. In certain cases we were simply lied to. In the end the standard "volunteer" argument was offered along with the "if you don't like it run for office" argument. Why you seem to think that's acceptable is beyond comprehension.

The bottom line is that the Alabama region and perhaps others, want to be racing regions and self admittedly, Alabama wants the economic benefits of being such at the expense of other regions and perhaps bring on the dismantling of SEDIV. The fact that they don't have a track and only 50 or so drivers and workers combined is not even being considered. Don't you think that being a racing region should require being able to actually put on a race? That's only the tip of the iceberg. Considering that they want to make Roebling their home track smacks of the same thing they are accusing Florida of considering that so many regions would be calling Roebling their home track. They claim Florida has too many competing dates at their four tracks yet they want to double up on dates all at one track vis-a-vis three or four regions. If that ain't the pot calling the kettle black I don't know what is.

Aside from the pure racing issue there is the method by which this action is taking place. It basically exposes a serious flaw in the divisional system. We have a region with just two licensed drivers and workers that has as much voting power as Central Florida or North Carolina with over 1400 drivers and workers. And that, is exactly how Alabama is trying to do this. Barry has been calling all the little non-racing regions looking for support. (One of those discussions with an RE was detailed in a meeting I had on Sunday afternoon along with the news that the plan had become an agenda item). Sell them the economics of being a racing region and knock down big bad Florida and North Carolina. So who wins and who loses? Well, regions like Alabama and South Carolina end up with a disproportionately good number of races based on their driver and worker count and regions like Florida, CFR and North Carolina end up on the other end of the disproportionate scale. Currently it's already heavily skewed and this plan seeks to make it even more so. Alabama has one race for every 25 drivers and workers while CFR has one race for every 220. Does that seem fair?

We were told they were looking for a more equitable distribution of races. Does increasing that ratio seem equitable? If anything we should be talking about increasing and decreasing the number of races per region based on driver and worker counts not on what what one region wants to be profitable simply because it exists without regard for the region's resources, size or population. We were told there were concerns over workers. Can't get workers? Plan fewer events or start recruiting more workers. Don't have a track? I Guess you shouldn't be planning events. What Barry is proposing is the equivalent of using my car and gas card to start a delivery service for free. Use your own car and gas. Don't have a car or gas? Well then. Guess you shouldn't be in the delivery service.

In addition to all of this is the fact that we were told this would not be an agenda item. Butch was emphatic about that and I doubt there was any reason for him to think otherwise but I don't believe he knew how intent Barry was in working the issue through. Regardless, the fact is that now, it is, as I always believed it would be, an agenda item despite reassurances from many officials that it wouldn't be. If I thought saying "I told you so" would do anything I'd be happy as heck but the end result is they bulldozed their way in ignoring everyone who had concerns and told us it wasn't an issue. Ultimately they reached their goal of getting their plan on the agenda while keeping us all in the dark. Now we face the possibility of losing a vote somewhere down the road based on the fact that voting is not a function of population but is based on the mere existence of a region, and it's too late to do anything about it. Another tactic commonly used by officials that I warned about early on. And for anyone out there who still believes that this plan could never win, you need only review the regional structure of the SEDIV and count up the votes. CFR, Florida, North Carolina and maybe Atlanta. That's 77% of the SEDIV but only 4 votes. There's 14 other votes out there including four that would call Roebling home and possibly three or four others.

So the only guarantee in this whole thing is the Florida "trump card" which is bad for everbody especially those that are currently self supporting racing regions close to Florida like Atlanta and Buccaneer. Simply put, the "trump card" is that Florida threatens to leave the division. Will it kill the plan? I don't know that it would necessarily have enough effect on enough regions. With around 50% of all the drivers and workers it would be devastating to the division. Furthermore, Florida would certainly add some dates that would keep Florida folks even closer to home than they are now hurting Atlanta and Buccaneer. I know I have to make a trip to Roebling or Atlanta as it stands now but as a separate division you could bet the farm there would be at least four or five Nationals in Florida, probably more and surely a new regional series to replace SARRC. With over 1000 drivers, 700 workers and a 253 car average, I would venture to guess that Florida on its own, now that CENDIV has split, would probably be the second largest division nationally behind NEDIV. So it's a very reasonable possibility and the only option available if faced with any type of approval of this plan.

But Barry doesn't seem to care about the division. What he seems to care about is the revenue and prowess from being a racing region. His 50 licensed drivers and workers won't feel any effect because everything they get now is gravy anyway. They currently enjoy the highest per person race schedule in the division and they don't even have a track! For Alabama it's a no lose situation so why not go for it? And it sure looks like that's what he's doing. The sad part of it is he might just win.

What bothers me most is that with this issue everytime we hear that something is not going to happen or something is not true it turns out to be the opposite. If you remember, Barry and a few others came here and originally claimed the discussion never took place. After Toni came out with her version there were more denials. When a written copy came out almost verbatim from what Toni wrote, we never heard from Barry again. Just remember that this all started with a couple of people who claimed the plan which is now an agenda item was never even discussed, and there hasn't been a divsional meeting since. How'd an issue that was never discussed become an agenda item?

See you all at Jeckyll.

 

[Matt Rowe]

Originally posted by Mattberg@Jan 17 2006, 08:31 AM
Unfortunately you have managed to do exactly what Barry and others involved in this "plan" want. Shoot the messenger and deflect the real issue

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Threats, name calling and endless rhetoric like the above are what deflected the issue. You've said it yourself, many people will go against any cause just because YOU are involved. So if you really believe all of this stuff you have been spewing the best thing to do would be to SHUT UP and let some one else that is less confrontational and offensive make sure SEDIV doesn't tear itself apart. Unless YOU have your own secret agenda.

 

[Mattberg]

Matt, I don't think I threatened anyone other than with silly string or otherwise in jest. I'm pretty much a pacifist. I wish though, I had a dime for everytime someone threatened me physically and was not joking! As far as name calling, I call em' like I see em'. Lie to people and your a liar. Barry Lied. He's a liar. He said the discussion never took place. Basically called Toni a liar. Deception by an official in a club of amateur hobbyists is a sad, scummy thing to do. How could you disagree? Plus he's a lawyer! Making a divisional agenda item an invitation only deal? Gimme' a break. Any name calling is well deserved. Scott on the other hand is simply executing a strict character attack and thinks he's funny. I don't mind. I'm thick skinned.

And if no one listens as you say, I can at least be secure that everyone knows about it. 12,000 views on the one thread and now over 1,300 on this one. Never been more on this site. Just need to get the word out and that's been done best I know how. I get as many good e-mails and PMs as bad ones. You'd be surprised how many officials are happy to have me around to do the dirty work when some nut case comes up with a lame brained scheme they need to expose. How it's done may not appeal to you but a lot of people get the story and I don't opine often and do little without confirming facts (especially since getting sued for defamation this year. I won the case. ). All the facts I've put up have been confirmed including those denied by Barry and others. People can make up their own minds and I trust they're a lot smarter than to ignore a real issue just because they don't like me.

Last, I really don't want to see Florida leave the division even though it probably would be good for me personally. I like the fact that SEDIV is the biggest division in the SCCA and being part of that. Hate to see it break up but we're not gong to stand for a guy who represents 25 drivers trying to dictate terms by using fourteen non-racing regions to bolster support in a flawed voting system. I have no agenda but to race as much as I can. If they take away races I can't do that. So I guess my agenda is the more racing not less!

 

[Matt Rowe]

Originally posted by Mattberg@Jan 17 2006, 09:37 AM
You'd be surprised how many officials are happy to have me around to do the dirty work when some nut case comes up with a lame brained scheme they need to expose.

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If that is truly the case then you should be putting up their names here as well. If an official is not willing to take the heat and make the tough decisions, then other sports beckon. Personally, I don't think that happens nearly as much as you allude to. But even if it is that common I'm tired of hearing ths same sorry excuse from you for YOUR poor behavior with nothing to back it up. As I said before, you've gotten the word out so now it's time to shut up.

And don't try to down play the threats that you made. Be man enough to admit that you DID physically and legally threatened several people during this whole rampage of yours. Those are the not the acts of a pacifist. They are the acts of someone who can't resolve issues through rational discussion and someone who should not be entertaining delusions of being the sole champion of causes for the "real racers."

Now, will the moderator please lock this discussion as it has again degenerated into another pointless waste of time.

 

[charrbq]

Originally posted by Matt Rowe@Jan 17 2006, 04:19 PM
If that is truly the case then you should be putting up their names here as well. If an official is not willing to take the heat and make the tough decisions, then other sports beckon. Personally, I don't think that happens nearly as much as you allude to. But even if it is that common I'm tired of hearing ths same sorry excuse from you for YOUR poor behavior with nothing to back it up. As I said before, you've gotten the word out so now it's time to shut up.

And don't try to down play the threats that you made. Be man enough to admit that you DID physically and legally threatened several people during this whole rampage of yours. Those are the not the acts of a pacifist. They are the acts of someone who can't resolve issues through rational discussion and someone who should not be entertaining delusions of being the sole champion of causes for the "real racers."

Now, will the moderator please lock this discussion as it has again degenerated into another pointless waste of time.

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I'll second the last sentence. I question how this guy has been allowed to use this forum in such an abusive fashion. The physical and verbal threats/name calling should be enough to get him punted. He has achieved only one thing...bringing out the worst in all of us.

 

[Mattberg]

If squirting someone with a child's water pistol or a can of silly string is a legal and physical threat, guilty as charged. If you took the issue half as seriously as you take the delivery of the message maybe you'd see the seriousness of the problem, but you're too caught up hating Mattberg for personal reasons.

Also, the thread is not useless. The racers in Florida and North Carolina would be severly affected by the plan that was suggested. Keeping up to date with what's going on is of significant importance. It also addresses some important side issues that effect all of SEDIV if not every division in the country, specifically as it relates to voting rights and procedures. Should a region with two licensed members even be allowed to exist and vote with the same impact of a region with 1500? One of my proposals for Jeckyll will certainly be a plan for proportional voting based on driver and worker counts. THe system in place now disregards any semblance of popular vote.

Last and most importantly, the issue was addressed initially with rataional discussion and communications. I started after that broke down. It's difficult to continue doing so when one side wants to win so badly that they begin lying and spreading misinformation. Especially when there is a concerted effort on the part of more than one person in a position of power and perceived respect. Everybody said there was no way in the world this proposal had a snowball's chance in hell of getting on the table but here we are a week away and they got exactly that. Barry said he wouldn't support any such plan (I will go back and get the exact quote if you'd like) but he was working the phone last week trying to get support for it from the little non-racing regions. These are people you expect to have rational discussions with? How could you believe anything they say when they turn around and do exactly the opposite of what they say they're going to do? It's called bad faith negotiating and I saw it early and chose not to be subject to it. In the end it looks like I was right on target.

 

[Matt Rowe]

Originally posted by Mattberg@Jan 17 2006, 02:09 PM
If squirting someone with a child's water pistol or a can of silly string is a legal and physical threat, guilty as charged. 

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To use your words:

"We will be there Barry and you will be lucky if we don't drag you out and put you in the dumpster." Dec 21 7:48 PM

"You'll be lucky to make it out of Jeckyll Island without a blanket party. If I were you I wouldn't even show up. Look for me. 6'5" around 200 lbs." Dec 21 8:39 PM

Now looking up the legal definition of assault:

assault 1) v. the threat or attempt to strike another, whether successful or not, provided the target is aware of the danger.

I wouldn't be so quick to say guilty as charged.

And here we have you threatening legal action.

"The other regions claim it's on the Alabama nickel but I'll make sure of that. One penny gets assigned to SEDIV and Barry will be wearing stripes and a number across his chest." Dec 21 11:39

You had a busy day on the 21st, didn't you? And that was just one day. As I said if you're going to threaten someone be man enough to admit it without hiding behind your childish ideas about silly string and water pistols.

Originally posted by Mattberg@Jan 17 2006, 02:09 PM
If you took the issue half as seriously as you take the delivery of the message maybe you'd see the seriousness of the problem, but you're too caught up hating Mattberg for personal reasons.

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Oh I do take the issue seriously, but I also don't believe everything one person says just because it shouted the loudest and most frequently. The viewpoint of one person is rarely the complete story and as others have shown there is more going on here than just what you say. And my reasons for disliking your approach ARE personal. They are personal because I invest a lot of time in this club working to improve visibility, bring in new members and help work towards a better future. And it is personally very upsetting to see someone who is more than willing to tear apart a region, a division or an individual in the name what is best for the "real racers". Do you honestly think you are going to split SEDIV and if so what kind of idiot is so selfish as to do so much damage to the racers in one area in the country because you can't find a way to work things out? You must have thought the IRL / CART split was a good thing too, huh?

What is best for us is to work together and your divide and conquer, slash and burn techniques don't seem to get very far. Let's see, by your own admission the national spec miata class was held up in part because it was you working on it. This SEDIV matter is supposedly continuing forward despite your ranting and can only be stopped by a vote. Gee, that's what would have happened anyway. Sure you got the word about, but did you have to threaten people to do so? Your "investigation" into club finances went nowhere and there are still no answers. So what EXACTLY are you any good at? You've even said that the best way to get something approved by the club is to have you oppose it. You make that comment as a joke without realizing how much it says about your abiliities.

Originally posted by Mattberg@Jan 17 2006, 02:09 PM
Last and most importantly, the issue was addressed initially with rataional discussion and communications. I started after that broke down.

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Well if calling officials "greedy and overbearing" in the FIRST message about this is your idea of rational discussion then that pretty much sums up the problem. You don't understand what a rationl discussion is without resorting to name calling. You attacked this like a junkyard dog, barking loudly and trying to scare everyone as is your typical method. And you expect everyone else to swallow whatever you shovel out while shouting down any dissenting opinion until people are too tired to argue.


And finally, what about my comments about hiding these "numerous" officials who aren't willing to stand up and do what they believe is right? No comment from you on that? You're willing to slander some people for trying to make changes but hide others who are unwilling to do their job. Or are you just full of it? Trotting out that line whenever YOUR motivations are challenged?

 

[Russ Myers]

What would you have us, as REAL RACERS, do? What course of action do you suggest? LEAD US oh kinky turtle.

Russ

 

[Mattberg]

You crack me up Russ. I think what we need to do is look at the facts. First of all, Alabama is not a racing region. They think they are but they're not and will never be without some big membership push. They are 25 drivers racing at a track hundreds of miles away in a different state. It's somewhat comical. It's sort of like like Providence, Rhode Island trying to be an NFL city.

We need to show up at the meeting and voice how wrong this plan is and how it only hurts drivers as a general population. It's good for 50 guys (ultimately bad)and immediately bad for 2000. Pressure must be put on REs to ignore the plan and Barry Hair and start concentrating on drivers and product.

To tell you the truth I've reviewed the bylaws and I see nothing to stop this. Perhaps simple outrage and pressure will force REs into an act of conscience. Honestly I don't see any way of stopping it. It's gone too far to fast which I was worried about the moment people started calling it ridiculous and that it could never happen. It all depends on who supports it. I don't think the little regions have anything to lose. Atlanta is actually the big loser. Roebling and Buccaneer could end up with a bunch of business, small but more than usual. Florida on its own will be more than fine. It's just a shame to see it come down to this and the way it was done is really abhorrent.

What else can we do? Write letters, e-mails, call friends, call your RE. Cross your fingers.

 

[Anubis]

This thread made me giggle like a lil schoolgirl, I needed the laugh.

Butch's secret group is not organized by numbers, instead by colors. I heard there was lots of fighting over who ended up with Mr Pink.

No public pants parties Chris, no Scott... no Chris, no Scott, argh its so confusing with only website links and names in signatures and people stating their names. :119:

 

[tom_sprecher]

Hey Weisberg,

Are you going to be in Jekyll this weekend? During the 4:00 SEDiv reports general business meeting on Saturday you could accuse the offenders in person before the majority, present your case backed by the evidence you have and get a verdict.

How about it? Then we could be rid of the threat for good.

 

[charrbq]

Originally posted by Anubis@Jan 18 2006, 04:35 AM
This thread made me giggle like a lil schoolgirl, I needed the laugh.

Butch's secret group is not organized by numbers, instead by colors. I heard there was lots of fighting over who ended up with Mr Pink.

No public pants parties Chris, no Scott... no Chris, no Scott, argh its so confusing with only website links and names in signatures and people stating their names.  :119:

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Lance, I understand your confusion, but I've never been able to understand Mattberg's. My name is at the bottom of all my posts. Scott's isn't. How he got them confused is beyond me.

 

[Mattberg]

Originally posted by tom_sprecher@Jan 18 2006, 05:14 AM
Hey Weisberg,

Are you going to be in Jekyll this weekend?  During the 4:00 SEDiv reports general business meeting on Saturday you could accuse the offenders in person before the majority, present your case backed by the evidence you have and get a verdict.

How about it?  Then we could be rid of the threat for good.

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I'll be there, but the meeting of importance is on Friday and I'm not invited. And Tom, I really don't think accusing anyone of anything at this point can serve much purpose. They did what I said they were going to do and what all of you said could and would never happen. Now it's a matter of whether Barry gan garner enough support for the plan and if so, what happens? I'm debating whether presence at Jeckyll is even going to accomplish anything. It may be simply too little, too late. The meeting of substance will probably be the CFR meeting later in the month that deals with the outcome at Jeckyll.

So what's done is done. I can go back and get Barry's quotes about how he would never back this plan but then we start getting calls from officials who says he's lobbying REs of the samll regions for adoption. Does it do any good to continue accusations of such? Nope. Can it be stopped? Nope. If he gets enough of them though, and they have nothing to lose, they'll win a vote hands down. There's 14 of them and four of us (Florida, CFR, North Carolina and Atlanta). Atlanta gets hit the hardest because any Florida racers that go to Atlanta (remember that National racers MUST go to either Atlanata or Roebling at least once and a lot of us really don't care for Roebling) will be staying at home as Florida will surely add a couple of new nationals if they separate. By the count I've got that would hit Atlanta for around 16% of their driver and 6% of their worker count.

I'm still trying to figure out who Barry thinks is going to work Alabama events in Georgia with a region that only has 21 workers total or where they're going to find enough cars to throw a national against a competing date in Florida. He also would have to get yet another exemption and I'd be surprised if it were allowed. It really is a short sighted plan and makes little sense unless you're selling it to Karl Marx. Maybe these points aren't making it through to him. I don't know. But I really don't think he has analyzed the situation minus Florida and assumes that Florida would adhere to any restrictions of a divisional plan. That perfect little world is never going to happen and covincing Barry otherwise just doesn't seem to be in the cards. <_<

p.s. As it relates to Atlanta which I know is your concern, it wil be interesting to hear what North Carolina has to say. Not being large enough to split off they'd have to accept it. Or would they look at moving to NEDIV? Not sure if that could be done but if I were the NC RE I'd sure be looking at options. If that happened Atlanta would really get hit hard. With three tracks (VIR, Kershaw, Summit Point) they have some interesting options. Actually I think there's also a fourth track, isn't there? Anyway, bottom line is that I think any restrictions forced upon anyone that is currently a succesful racing region will ultimately draw the North and South driver and worker populations away from Atlanta. I already heard talk of boycotts of Roebling races from a number of national guys at Homestead last weekend. The point is to do yourself a favor Tom and look at all the facts. I don't think you'll find anything good about this plan especially for Atlanta region and when Butch Kummer said he was totally against it I can understand why looking at the bigger picture.

 

[Butch Kummer]

I thought for a second MattBerg and I might actually agree on something, but then the thought of Hell freezing over got the better of me.

I WILL be at the Secret Meeting on Friday night (since I'm really the ringleader of the whole movement - don't do me any more favors, Scott! ). I've seen no secret agenda, I don't expect any votes to be taken, Barry (nor anyone else) has been lobbying for my vote and I fully expect nothing to result from that meeting other than a better understanding of the issues that each region faces. But unlike MattBerg, I AM willing to admit that I could be wrong and I'm being deceived by those clever few bent on destroying SEDIV for their own personal gain.

The SEDIV racing calendar is extremely crowded, which promotes worker burnout and makes it difficult for a fledgling racing region to hold events. In my mind this is very much analogous (that means "similar", MattBerg) to the I-A vs. I-AA battles in the NCAA. Before scholarship limitations, schools like Alabama (my God, do I detect a trend here?) and Oklahoma would offer scholarships to guys they knew would never play just to keep the competing schools from getting them. Fair or not, the scholarship limitations have made college football more enjoyable. The difference is, we already have race limitations in total events, mileage between events and consecutive weekends. Perhaps those rules could use some tweaking, but NOT wholesale change.

Will such tweaking come out of the meetings at Jekyll? I don't know. What I DO know follows (and this is supported by my RE, Tere Pulliam as well):

1. Any REAL proposal (i.e. - a motion to be voted upon by the RE's) to redistribute races within SEDIV will have to be brought up during Sunday's RE meeting.

2. IF (notice the capitals) such a proposal is presented, I/we will argue that any vote be delayed until the Mid-Year meeting to give time for membership input.

3. CFR's Board of Governors has already directed their RE Rick Balderson to "pursue other affiliations" (not their specific words, but I don't have the e-mail from Rick here) should their racing program be arbitrarily cut back in any way (i.e. - they will explore dropping out of SEDIV).

4. Atlanta Region is happy with our current race program and would explore similar options should SEDIV try to further limit our options.

5. Based on #3 & #4 above, SEDIV as we know it today would cease to exist should any proposal similar to the one as interpreted by MattBerg is adopted. There may POSSIBLY be some SEDIV RE's that would like to see that happen, but not near enough to carry the vote.

The part MattBerg and I almost agree upon is that you need to help your elected officials do their job. Let them know what you think (you already know my views) about how racing is carried out in YOUR division. Just say it once, however - camping on their doorstep and shouting over a bullhorn that they're idiots just ticks 'em off!

What pi$$es me off is that after no vote is taken nor proposals result at the Secret Meeting, MattBerg will take all the credit for having influenced the outcome. I guess I'll have to live with that.

I'm done here until after Jekyll. When we get back I hope to have an official announcement about the Atlanta Region Labor Day Double SARRC for 2006 (and beyond)...

Butch Kummer
Atlanta Region Comp.Director

 

[tom_sprecher]

Based on the last response I don't know why I bother but with nothing but junk email in my inbox I guess I have the time.

Matt, nothing has been done, yet. No call to order, no proposal, no motion, no vote. The “secret meeting” if anything is a private affair held not at the request of Barry for the purpose of trying to look at various topics of concern in a relaxed environment. I honestly don’t have a problem with that and have done the same in business and I can tell you it is a very effective tool.

By not voicing your findings to a larger audience other than what has read your rants on this forum you have wasted everyone’s time and your efforts. If enough people are not made aware of what can happen, it can. The system works by informed members letting their leadership know how they feel and want said leaders to vote. If the membership is not informed, this process can’t even get off the ground. You will have failed unless stirring up $hit is all you wish to accomplish. Plus, who needs a dog that’s all bark and no bite?

To be honest, the question about Jekyll was really just bait and it looks like I caught what I was angling for. I’m done fishing. See everyone at Jekyll this weekend.

 

[Mattberg]

Mitch, I mean Butch...just kidding...

I like everything you've said. But you have to admit we've come a long way to the current point from a discussion that "never took place". The fact that we, CFR, are already looking at alternate associations is a BFD. Point is that this was far more than it was made out to be and it is now materializing. I would just like a little recognition for that but...

Just so you know, I want NO CREDIT for anything. I just want to race without limitations and without crazy people running regions with 21 workers trying to be a major racing region with the assumption that limiting other regions will make them successful or that they can ramrod their programs. We also need to change the voting system. Wiregrass? 2 members? Paaalease.

Like I said before, I think this is a dangerous proposal for Atlanta. If CFR and/or Florida go out on their own it's actually very good for me but I still don't like it looking at the bigger picture. If I were selfish enough I'd be out there supporting Barry. In the end let's just make sure this thing doesn't see the light of day. I'll be there not with a bull horn but with a briefcase full of documentation and statistics. I've learned that in the final stages of any negotiation or debate numbers are hard to argue against. I might make a lot of noise in the beginning but when we get to the table I'll be all business.

 

[Mattberg]

That's not true Tom. As you can see from Butch's post CFR has already taken certain actions. We were notified on Sunday that the plan had been added to the Jeckyll agenda. That's a long way from nothing discussed or nothing happeneing. Furthermore it's a divisional agenda item in an invitation only meeting. I have a huge problem with that. Don't you?

 

[wbp]

If you wish to gather some truth on this subject, which has been a huge distortion, go to the Central Florida Region site and see Rick Balderson's "January RE Report". As he quotes there this is "an acorn someone is trying to make into an oak tree".
www.cfrscca.org

 

[Mattberg]

Originally posted by wbp@Jan 19 2006, 12:25 AM
If you wish to gather some truth on this subject, which has been a huge distortion, go to the Central Florida Region site and see Rick Balderson's "January RE Report".  As he quotes there this is "an acorn someone is trying to make into an oak tree".
www.cfrscca.org

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But Barry is watering that acorn like a madman. The good news is people are starting to see how much of a lunatic he is. I've heard some of the REs are turning around on the issue. I hope this trend continues. Even his own region's drivers are starting to see him as an obstacle. I've heard that we'd be back at Barber if it weren't for Barry. He screwed it up and as a matter of pride he won't go back.

As far as it being "nothing to worry about" I wouldn't go that far. CFR is already taking action in the event this should go further and that is a full split from the division. I've heard the BoG have mnet and have no problems with an immediate split should Barry's little plan get approval. Let's dig up that acorn and flush it. This is a turd we can't leave floating.