NHMS Triple, Memorial Day Weekend 2011

A Z3 in limp mode.....hmmmm sounds so familiar. I totally second the straight line braking on a Z. Very twitchy car, very fickle car but a hoot to drive. If I went from the e36 to the Z I'd own a boat right now. Going from the Z to something stable and predictable is very fun.

AB....you serious on ITR.....Hmmm.....A miata woul definitely take up less room......

R
 
.

at 10:28 (while Bob is still spinning) you can see the yellow come out

However, I spoke with the drivers of 5 of the 7 of the cars that came through
between the spin and crash (Joe, Dominick, Matt, Nat and Tim) and all
but one of them (Joe) said that they DID NOT SEE ANY FLAG...you can see
that Joe is going much slower, and that the others are at speed.

When I came back around, there was no precautionary yellow at 10, and
behind me, Matt said he the flaggers at 10 pulling the white for the rolling ambulance.

So...as I see it, this is a lesson that the flag station at 11 is not in a position
that flags can be seen at speed, and must be moved

.....also....in the 10:50-10:24 = 26 seconds Bob was in the middle of the track,
either precautionary yellow should have been flown at 10, or full course yellow
should have been called.

.
 
I agree that that flag station is very hard to see and always has been. But I am not sure how they could change the station and be safe for the Nascar oval. I vote that we get rid of that turn all together... I have always hated the hole/curbing in that area of the track anyway!

Sorry that this happened to both of you... your both great guys and I respect you both as experienced heads up drivers that race hard but understand we do this for fun and not for a living!

Stephen
 
lawtonglenn said:
.

.....also....in the 10:50-10:24 = 26 seconds Bob was in the middle of the track,
either precautionary yellow should have been flown at 10, or full course yellow
should have been called.

.
Click to expand...

So I am trying to learn from this. If I was driving and I saw a 'precautionary single yellow' at 10, then I saw nothing between 10 and 11, I would have to assume the danger was gone and I would have amped back up to 100%.

The issue is whether or not drivers can see the station around 11/12. I haven't raced there in over a year so I wonder if the station has been moved back? The flag clearly comes out VERY quickly. The spin isn't even half over before it's waving (10:28). Every station can't be directly in the drivers sightline. I have seen plenty of waving yellows there for cars spun out or even off onto NASCAR 4.

The red Porsche at 10:41 IMHO clearly sees the flag and/or the car. His pace is so slow he can come inside (and does). The two Miata's at 10:47 also seem to be aware.

The Volvo and the VW don't (seem to be aware of the yellow).
 
Last edited:
That is a total shame. And I think that's one of the best runs I've seen from Bob Blake - he was right up there with the leaders.

Andy's correct - the Volvo and VW are 100% and don't seem to know that a car was in track.

Nasty hit - glad that everybody is OK.

You could tell Bob was ready to head back out with crushed hood and all! Can the car be fixed?
 
This wreck is yet another reason to have a radio and spotter if at all possible (thanks, Adam!). I learned of this wreck coming out of the bowl, with a full 20 seconds to think about what might be ahead and prepare.
 
TimM ITB said:
The Golf is fixable, but it will take some work. And I am just looking at options. Don't know if I feel like re-building the Golf again, may want to look at an ITA or ITS, or even ITR to get in to. I love the battles that I have had with other ITB guys - great racing! But this may be the right time to try something else?
Click to expand...

Let me know which direction you go and if you decide to sell the golf, I have a freind who just started builiding his 95' golf and this might speed things up for him and put some money in your pocket. :)
 
coutzen said:

Flagger and stopped car visible by coutzen, on Flickr
Click to expand...

Andy Bettencourt said:
...I saw a 'precautionary single yellow' at 10, then I saw nothing between 10 and 11,
I would have to assume the danger was gone and I would have amped back up to 100%...
Click to expand...

so looking at this video grab, a 'precautionary single yellow' at 10 would have had you looking
for the waving yellow and the stranded car, which you would have seen before amping back to 100%.

but I think the real point is:

Andy Bettencourt said:
..The Volvo and the VW don't (seem to be aware of the yellow).
Click to expand...
 
I was driving the Volvo and I can assure you I did not see the waving yellow or realize that his car was there until I almost collected him myself. I believe this is a serious problem (tunnel vision- concentration- stupidity- whatever you want to call it) I would love to have the ability to listen to flaggers with some sort of radio receiver in my helmet, so I would be more aware of problems like this.

It is interesting that when Tim got T-boned at the start of a race in Pocono a few years ago, most of the field raced all the way around until start/finish where the yellow was very obvious ( I was one of those idiots then too). I have video from that race and you must look away from where you are going to see the yellows until start/ finish where it is hanging out over the track.

Nat Wentworth
Volvo 142 ITB
 
I'll comment on the flag station.

I was in the blue & silver Miata that went past while Blake was parked. I am quite certain there was no flag.

On Sunday Steve Ulfelder was practicing his parking skills in the same corner and again, there was no flag. Not a flag that was hard to see, there was no flag. I am sure of it.

They have changed that flag station and the concrete barrier is much higher than it used to be. It is probablly much safer too since it appears to have more mass than the pair of jersey barriers that it replaced. I would think that a simple platform that gives the workers another 18-24" of height would allow the flag to be much more visible. My thought is that the location is good, it really is close to your line of sight as you come out of 10, but with the barrier so tall its hard for the worker to wave the flag effectively.

I've been parked backwards on the run-off at that turn, its f'ing scary. I think Blake is glad he was at least aimed head on and it was not his drivers door that Tim hit.

Matt
 
I think this corner station is very similar to Lime rock heading onto no-name straight. It is not directly in the line of sight and it kinda blends in with all the bleachers. Honestly look at that picture, yellow nascar paint on the walls that blend in with the flag that is directly in front them when viewed from the car and those bright aluminum stands. All very distracting. As a driver racing extremely tight to someone you probably don't look away from the direction your heading. (Before I get flamed I did not say we shouldn't, I just said we as racers don't always do this.)

I also bet if we had accidents in this corner all the time all of us as drivers would be more aware of that flag station. The reality is that it's not common to see a flag or a car stopped in that turn which may lead us to be less aware sometimes.

FYI, in this situation the yellow was in fact waving the entire time.

Stephen
 
Is it me or are the VW's wheels actually turning left at 10:49?? As Nat mentions above and can be clearly seen on the video, he just barely misses collecting Bob Baker himself. While I can't comment on the yellow flag debate, IMHO looks like the Tim was turning left but was already sliding out on the corner while trying to turn right as the contact happened. Doesn't make the damage fix itself but may explain why everyone else made it by and Tim couldn't.
 
MMiskoe said:
I'll comment on the flag station.

I was in the blue & silver Miata that went past while Blake was parked. I am quite certain there was no flag.

Matt
Click to expand...

So we saw the flag when he spun, you can see the flag and the car in the screen shot.

You think they took the flag DOWN while he was there during those 30 seconds?
 
StephenB said:
I think this corner station is very similar to Lime rock heading onto no-name straight. It is not directly in the line of sight and it kinda blends in with all the bleachers. Honestly look at that picture, yellow nascar paint on the walls that blend in with the flag that is directly in front them when viewed from the car and those bright aluminum stands. All very distracting. As a driver racing extremely tight to someone you probably don't look away from the direction your heading. (Before I get flamed I did not say we shouldn't, I just said we as racers don't always do this.)

I also bet if we had accidents in this corner all the time all of us as drivers would be more aware of that flag station. The reality is that it's not common to see a flag or a car stopped in that turn which may lead us to be less aware sometimes.

FYI, in this situation the yellow was in fact waving the entire time.

Stephen
Click to expand...

No skin in the game but yeah, that's a really difficult flag to see. Get the flagger up on a platform and put a black outline around the flag. In order to see motion, there's got to be some contrast, and it's motion that gets our attention.

K
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top