SCCA ideas
- Thread starter Flyinglizard
- Start date
Flyinglizard
New member
There seems to be a Market for; Cheap Endurance racing. SCCA endurance racing allows mega $ tires, some allow fuel rigs. Chumpcar/lemons does not. Do we need to adjust to market?
Many Chumpcar drivers are EX SCCA, and current SCCA.
As far as I can tell, not many Chumps will tow 4hrs and race for 40min. I dont think that we can get many of those drivers. maybe.
I still hope for a 2hr or longer race at twilight for anyone that that runs on 180TW or higher tires. Lights on ,dark is good, and brings drivers.
The PBOC race gets 60 teams for the 6 hr race @ Sebring every time, @ 600$.
Market for single day, 3-4session days. Less expenses, more driving on track. Can SCCA adjust?
The next race @ Sebring has 2 practice/qualifying sessions on Sat, 2 races on Sun. Why cant the qualifying session be a race?? Race good , lapping only fair. Lots of time sitting around. Todays kids dont want that. Todays adults dont want that either.IMHO, Esp with some many alternatives that are track time intense. .
Market for ; cheap race cars with limited rules.
A kid and Dad can build/prep a Chumpcar/lemons. Where can SCCA adjust?
FWIW my Son and I work on his HP Rocco, Why does he like his car?/ Cuz it has a chance to win. As stated elsewhere, racer has no chance to win, racer stays home. He ran really well last time out and got inspired to remove the 60# that we were over. If he got smoked he would have stayed at school, sleeping in.
When he bought his car, it was ITB, went home and looked at the IT board. Not good feelings about washer bottles, axle cages, etc. He said that we should just run the car in prod on free tires, as the lap times were not much faster. he's usually right.
Many Chumpcar drivers are EX SCCA, and current SCCA.
As far as I can tell, not many Chumps will tow 4hrs and race for 40min. I dont think that we can get many of those drivers. maybe.
I still hope for a 2hr or longer race at twilight for anyone that that runs on 180TW or higher tires. Lights on ,dark is good, and brings drivers.
The PBOC race gets 60 teams for the 6 hr race @ Sebring every time, @ 600$.
Market for single day, 3-4session days. Less expenses, more driving on track. Can SCCA adjust?
The next race @ Sebring has 2 practice/qualifying sessions on Sat, 2 races on Sun. Why cant the qualifying session be a race?? Race good , lapping only fair. Lots of time sitting around. Todays kids dont want that. Todays adults dont want that either.IMHO, Esp with some many alternatives that are track time intense. .
Market for ; cheap race cars with limited rules.
A kid and Dad can build/prep a Chumpcar/lemons. Where can SCCA adjust?
FWIW my Son and I work on his HP Rocco, Why does he like his car?/ Cuz it has a chance to win. As stated elsewhere, racer has no chance to win, racer stays home. He ran really well last time out and got inspired to remove the 60# that we were over. If he got smoked he would have stayed at school, sleeping in.
When he bought his car, it was ITB, went home and looked at the IT board. Not good feelings about washer bottles, axle cages, etc. He said that we should just run the car in prod on free tires, as the lap times were not much faster. he's usually right.
Cobrar05
New member
* nasa which many here consider the land of the lawless has the same medical requirements as scca. i have a heart condition and i am required to do a stress echo every year for both scca and nasa doctors. scca is not worse than other groups.
* chump/lemons racing is fun. i am sure. i race a grand am spec mustang, however. i share my run group as a rules with gt1/trans am cars and spo/stock cars among others. at tracks like road atlanta and vir those cars are hitting 180mph plus. my car is at 150mph plus. i am willing to speculate that conditions and requirements for racing a crapcan and a trans am car are different and need to be.
* scca can operate as if they think they are the fia and this is a formula one series. getting a car annual teched or even classed in scca can be ridiculous. the inspectors seem to relish in failing someone. i guess it makes sense to the extent that its how they participate.
* chump/lemons racing is fun. i am sure. i race a grand am spec mustang, however. i share my run group as a rules with gt1/trans am cars and spo/stock cars among others. at tracks like road atlanta and vir those cars are hitting 180mph plus. my car is at 150mph plus. i am willing to speculate that conditions and requirements for racing a crapcan and a trans am car are different and need to be.
* scca can operate as if they think they are the fia and this is a formula one series. getting a car annual teched or even classed in scca can be ridiculous. the inspectors seem to relish in failing someone. i guess it makes sense to the extent that its how they participate.
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downingracing
New member
Already there - IT.
No adjustment needed - A kid and a Dad can build/prep an IT car. Easy to do - and already being done (by many).
Maybe at a Regional... With a low car count in HP... A low-buck effort will not put you at the front of the field. You can have a BLAST racing on a very small budget. But finishing at the top of the order usually takes more effort (money). Cheap, Fast, Reliable - Pick Two.
There are TONS of people who come out racing that do not have a chance to 'win'. They DO have the chance to race HARD and have a GREAT time. Just because Ruck signs up for an event in ITA doesn't mean the rest of the ITA cars around here stay home. We show up and have GREAT races! And anyone who wants to compete for that top spot can put the effort in and improve to try and beat him. The rest of us are very happy with the close racing and great time! First place pays the same as 9th and the beer is free for everyone no matter of finishing position!
downingracing
New member
Cobrar05;340077...getting a car annual teched or even classed in scca can be ridiculous. the inspectors seem to relish in failing someone. i guess it makes sense to the extent that its how they participate.[/QUOTE said:Sorry you've had a bad experience with Tech. in 14 years (and a few 'new' cars/logbooks issued), I've had a handfull of 'issues'. Only ran into One person that was a problem/attitude/not-smart... Most issues were my fault and Tech worked with me to correct the issue every time. Annual Tech is usually a non-event for a car that has a logbook. Even getting a new logbook issued is easy (can be easy). Of course nothing has been as easy as my NASA logbook. No one got within 50 feet of the car and just created me a logbook off the SCCA logbook.
Flyinglizard
New member
Downing. ^The participation #s say otherwise.
Is there need to look at one day events? maybe
Is there need have nice people in tech? yes.
SCCA tech has been a pain ( CFR, Not Glen of NE at all. CFR). I understand that I am a lot of the problem. But maybe we should pay these guys and get rid of the volunteers. same with registration. Pay some HS person to sit inthe office for the day so that guest can get in.
Treat our customers, and guest, like we want them back.
I Understand that most of our volunteers are really nice people that have served our club really well.
These are small issues, in the big picture.
We just dont have the only game anymore. The racing is good in the classes with cars.
I get a little bothered by the race groups, here in the SE.For the 9/1 race, SM is with the prod cars. So we have cars playing bumper tag with cars with no bumpers. Not good. I call" the man" and he says that the supps have been published, nothing we can do. really?? total BS.
Answers like that that turn me off. Split the start at least.
IMHO.
Is there need to look at one day events? maybe
Is there need have nice people in tech? yes.
SCCA tech has been a pain ( CFR, Not Glen of NE at all. CFR). I understand that I am a lot of the problem. But maybe we should pay these guys and get rid of the volunteers. same with registration. Pay some HS person to sit inthe office for the day so that guest can get in.
Treat our customers, and guest, like we want them back.
I Understand that most of our volunteers are really nice people that have served our club really well.
These are small issues, in the big picture.
We just dont have the only game anymore. The racing is good in the classes with cars.
I get a little bothered by the race groups, here in the SE.For the 9/1 race, SM is with the prod cars. So we have cars playing bumper tag with cars with no bumpers. Not good. I call" the man" and he says that the supps have been published, nothing we can do. really?? total BS.
Answers like that that turn me off. Split the start at least.
IMHO.
Yeah - Detroit Region Tech is legendary in this regard. Thankfully it's not all of them, just most of them. But I agree, on a general level, with this statement...
Edit for more: I get it, as I think every driver does, that Tech is just part of trying to keep us all safe. But if I'm old enough to have a race license, I don't need to be treated like a schoolkid, with you trying to throw me curveballs and trick me. Especially if I know the GCR better than you anyway...
Cobrar05
New member
Sorry you've had a bad experience with Tech. in 14 years (and a few 'new' cars/logbooks issued), I've had a handfull of 'issues'. Only ran into One person that was a problem/attitude/not-smart... Most issues were my fault and Tech worked with me to correct the issue every time. Annual Tech is usually a non-event for a car that has a logbook. Even getting a new logbook issued is easy (can be easy). Of course nothing has been as easy as my NASA logbook. No one got within 50 feet of the car and just created me a logbook off the SCCA logbook.
downing...i brought a mustang fr500c from grand am racing that was grand am current to its first scca race. the hoops that i and my poor mechanic friend had to jump thru to get that car a logbook were really frustrating. it took 2 hours if i recall correctly.
meanwhile your nasa cheap shot is noted. i race in the southeast. my cars have been teched by the pervayor of OPM and by the owner of Long Road Racing. they actually touched the car. often. almost constantly. so, you are saying they checked the current nature of your safety belts from 50ft plus with the aid of a magnifying device of some kind?
Cobrar05
New member
protech,
concerning your comments in the other thread about the national system, its not an ego thing. i am certain of that. they race more seriously at that level. many of them are racing for serious contingency money. others have mfc sponsors that are already paying them. the lines between amatuer and professional at the national level get pretty blurred.
yes, its true. many scca national racers with hopes of a runoffs championship spend as much in an annual budget as a world challenge team might. they actually rent race tracks and test. i dont know many regional racers that have the budget to spend the same money or more that a typical race weekend would cost to test for two days trying to develope another 0.5 seconds of speed out of the car.
ive shared the race track with championship level trans am/gt1 drivers at vir and it cuts down on my fun. ive raced with serious drivers and they hit you as a matter of course if you are not quick enough on the throttle or brake too early.
in nasa they dont have any division between the elite and the just for fun racers. as an ai mustang driver, ive raced against grand am champions and mustang challenge race winners. you have to be as precise as you can be with them because they are that precise themselves. sometimes i want that kind of challenge. sometimes i just want to get some seat time and enjoy myself and dont want some guy breathing down my neck and bump drafting me at 150 mph.
concerning your comments in the other thread about the national system, its not an ego thing. i am certain of that. they race more seriously at that level. many of them are racing for serious contingency money. others have mfc sponsors that are already paying them. the lines between amatuer and professional at the national level get pretty blurred.
yes, its true. many scca national racers with hopes of a runoffs championship spend as much in an annual budget as a world challenge team might. they actually rent race tracks and test. i dont know many regional racers that have the budget to spend the same money or more that a typical race weekend would cost to test for two days trying to develope another 0.5 seconds of speed out of the car.
ive shared the race track with championship level trans am/gt1 drivers at vir and it cuts down on my fun. ive raced with serious drivers and they hit you as a matter of course if you are not quick enough on the throttle or brake too early.
in nasa they dont have any division between the elite and the just for fun racers. as an ai mustang driver, ive raced against grand am champions and mustang challenge race winners. you have to be as precise as you can be with them because they are that precise themselves. sometimes i want that kind of challenge. sometimes i just want to get some seat time and enjoy myself and dont want some guy breathing down my neck and bump drafting me at 150 mph.
downingracing
New member
Nope. I'm saying that when my NASA logbook was issued, there was 0 contact with the car. Car was no where near the garage I was in to have the book issued. No one looked at belts, no one looked at anything.
It is no secret that I'm not a NASA fan. I've run with them in the past and watched them over the years. I won't say I'll never run with them (with enough changes I would), but currently I will not.
What hoops did you have to jump thru at Tech to get a logbook? I don't know anything about a Grand-Am car and what class it slots into (if any) in club racing... Is it a direct 'fit' in a class? Do Grand-Am rules line up with SCCA club racing rules? (I really don't know)
JohnW8
New member
TT drivers with a full license have a medical requirement as well. Novice license holders and PDX driver have no medical requirement.
Flyinglizard
New member
I did not know that there were any TT drivers, with actual licenses. Thanks, MM
RE NASA tech , I had to swap my net. Not worn out, but over 5yrs. he went over the car pretty well. I did not have the SCCA logbook with me, as it was lost and SCCA failed to replace it.
" Please replace the book for this car"
"One page will get you through the weekend."
( The prior driver left it on the roof instead of in the pouch in the trunk.) Good times.
RE NASA tech , I had to swap my net. Not worn out, but over 5yrs. he went over the car pretty well. I did not have the SCCA logbook with me, as it was lost and SCCA failed to replace it.
" Please replace the book for this car"
"One page will get you through the weekend."
( The prior driver left it on the roof instead of in the pouch in the trunk.) Good times.
Cobrar05
New member
nasa can be very different from region to region. i wont comment about your particular experience any further except to say that it bares no resemblance whatsoever to mine.
a mustang fr500c is a grand am gs class car. i ran it at the time in SEDiv class ITO. it does not slot directly into any scca beyond that, which is another issue i have with scca.
iirc, they spent a good hour arguing amonst themselves over my ford racing fia legal rollcage. they then decided they didnt like how my lap belts were mounted, which was grand am/nascar legal, and made us change it. i also recall them failing me because the car didnt have a fuel port. grand am takes fuel off the fuel rail at the injector.
of course, its not just me. its amatuer racing and sometimes, not every time for sure, getting your car teched in the scca is like going thru the room of doom in nascar.
there is not a chance in the world that i would tear down my engine because i got a podium finish in a national race.
I detected the Pou-u-Ciel in there too.... Created to prove you could make any horrible design fly!
I scratch built a composite 60% FW-190 WWII fighter, but sold it before done (should be flying by now)... a bit too small and single place... will do a two seater aluminum monocoque next time, 200mph+
Why not run time trials in conjunction with a regional/national weekend? As their own run group? Seems like there's a club race every weekend (or at least every other weekend) in each division. Add a run group that gets three sessions on Saturday and Sunday. Same rules on contact/racing/passing as currently exists within club trials/time trials rule book. You lose a lot of atmosphere when they are divorced from each other.
As trialers get competitive and they're around the racers, some will naturally start to crossover as they become familiar/more committed and want for more competition. Plus, you're building relationships between these folks, the race officials, and the racers. Even if they don't turn into racers, they may turn in to volunteers!
I know I would have focused more effort to ensure i got a lot more track time if there was a time trial championship (say, five events coinciding with a club race) as its much easier to get motivated to get the car ready for a competitive event rather than a basic PDX. Without the competitive aspect, at least for me, it's easy to find other places to put my efforts.
Also, can we please have more schools throughout the year? Not everyone can be ready to go to school in march/april. Some people can't prep the car over the winter due to jobs and other such stuff. How about a school in June-August? Maybe allow racers to sign up and get some valuable seat time (they could be in different run groups, or there may be value in having them in the same run group as the rookies, sort of a baptism by fire).
I know this would have had a significant impact on getting my own arse to the track to get my license. Im an accountant, so my January-April is shot. The next available driver school isn't until October at Watkins Glen ($$$$$$) and its only a single, so I would have to catch one the next spring anyways.
Please don't take this as wanting to tailor the scca to just myself. I have a car and I'm making the effort to make a school next year (only need tires, decals, drivers suit and Hans!), just throwing some stuff on the wall to see if something sticks. I love the scca and can't wait to go racing.
Brian
Mahoning Valley Region
As trialers get competitive and they're around the racers, some will naturally start to crossover as they become familiar/more committed and want for more competition. Plus, you're building relationships between these folks, the race officials, and the racers. Even if they don't turn into racers, they may turn in to volunteers!
I know I would have focused more effort to ensure i got a lot more track time if there was a time trial championship (say, five events coinciding with a club race) as its much easier to get motivated to get the car ready for a competitive event rather than a basic PDX. Without the competitive aspect, at least for me, it's easy to find other places to put my efforts.
Also, can we please have more schools throughout the year? Not everyone can be ready to go to school in march/april. Some people can't prep the car over the winter due to jobs and other such stuff. How about a school in June-August? Maybe allow racers to sign up and get some valuable seat time (they could be in different run groups, or there may be value in having them in the same run group as the rookies, sort of a baptism by fire).
I know this would have had a significant impact on getting my own arse to the track to get my license. Im an accountant, so my January-April is shot. The next available driver school isn't until October at Watkins Glen ($$$$$$) and its only a single, so I would have to catch one the next spring anyways.
Please don't take this as wanting to tailor the scca to just myself. I have a car and I'm making the effort to make a school next year (only need tires, decals, drivers suit and Hans!), just throwing some stuff on the wall to see if something sticks. I love the scca and can't wait to go racing.
Brian
Mahoning Valley Region
downingracing
New member
I figured it was something like that. The car doesn't fit to a class and so it 'fits' in ITO. That makes tech tough(er) than taking a car that conforms to the rules in the GCR and giving it an annual tech/new logbook. Just because something is grand am/nascar legal doesn't mean it is OK for another sanctioning body. Same can go for the cage. And missing the fuel test port is another thing they are going to look at. Rules for some of those things (cage, belts, test port) are pretty 'firm' (for most sanctioning bodies). Those aren't excuses for the time taken - just an explanation of why sometimes it takes a while. (They can tech X, Y and Z easy but when an L shows up to be teched in class M - IT can get interesting)
You won't be asked to pull the head at a National race. You will (probably) be asked at the RunOffs.
If you get protested, you have the option to not tear down and take the penalty that goes with it - your choice. But so you know - anyone who won't tear down is probably cheating. The bond to tear down is paid by the person filing the paper and you get the money for the rebuild if/when the motor (part) is found legal. I welcome the protest for my crank, rods, whatever is down deep in the motor so I can get that 'free' rebuild.
Cobrar05
New member
matt
i am a pretty easy going guy. i can even get by with one silly nitpik. i wish i could remember the exact details of that particular tech nightmare. it was two hours of shaking my head.
i am far from the only guy that has this particular complaint. i am more careful now about which regions i will allow my car to be annualed.
i am a pretty easy going guy. i can even get by with one silly nitpik. i wish i could remember the exact details of that particular tech nightmare. it was two hours of shaking my head.
i am far from the only guy that has this particular complaint. i am more careful now about which regions i will allow my car to be annualed.
downingracing
New member
Me too! The ONLY tech issue I had was getting an annual out of division. Ran across the 'one' guy with no clue and it was an issue. The next tech guy at the same event started getting on me for what I'd done at the request of his co-worker. Then had an interesting conversation with that original tech worker that was 'fun' to listen to. Learned that lesson 10 years ago and make it a point to have my annual done in my division/region before I go racing for the year.
