Street tires in IT??

[raffaelli]

No real intermediate choice between the two so you are liteally making your tire choice just before you roll to the grid.

Which is very frustrating......last minute hectic scramble for tires, sways snd shocks......right before you need to be claim and focused.

 

[Xian]

I always had 4 sets: Low heat cycle R6s, A set of low heat cycle A6s for qualies and cold damp tracks that weren't really wet, a set of R6s that were high heat cycled for practice etc, and a set of Hoosier Dirt Stockers, teh all time king of IT rain tires.

BUT, if I was REALLY prepared, I'd have had a set of Inters. Ideally they would be A compounds with medium groves, but, nobody makes those, so the next best thing was a good street tire.

But MOST of the time, it's either getting wetter, or getting dryer, and you need to plan accordingly. Rare is the race where you just don't know. (Although I guessed wrong badly once, I've been right far more often and the results followed)

BUT, eliminate the whole R and A thing, and at BEST you have three sets: Full tread, (wets), some tread, (inters) and barely treads (drys).
You could 'get by" with two sets easy

Yup... and you wouldn't have to worry about bagging them, dragging them around forever, and never (or rarely) using them. When the current set of "dry" street tires is toast, switch to your current "rain" tires, and buy a new set of tires as the new "rains".

 

[Ron Earp]

Yup... and you wouldn't have to worry about bagging them, dragging them around forever, and never (or rarely) using them. When the current set of "dry" street tires is toast, switch to your current "rain" tires, and buy a new set of tires as the new "rains".

Man, these things sound so good I bet they'll blow me and cook dinner! Sign me up.

 

[autoxmike]

Yes, you can trash a set of HoHo H20s in the dry. Badly.

Which is why when it rains, it's kidn of a dance in IT. R6s are good on a dry or drying track, or in a light mist. Wets need sanding water. No real intermediate choice between the two so you are liteally making your tire choice just before you roll to the grid.

If I were a (serious) IT racer I would have a set of Dunlop ZIIs (if available in a good size for my car) on the trailer as intermediates. Not that far off in the dry or wet, can be used a bunch, and pretty inexpensive.

 

[autoxmike]

Man, these things sound so good I bet they'll blow me and cook dinner! Sign me up.

That do for me

Plus more I can't go into here...

 

[joeg]

Best "intermediates" are not street rubber.

Kumho Victor Racers (full tread) were excellent as were full tread Toyo Proxes.

Now I suspect a shaved H2O Wet would be a great inter, but that is silly and expensive.

I don't bother dragging all that rubber to the track any more. If rain is forecast, just a Hoosier Wet in addition to the R6(s).

 

[Xian]

Man, these things sound so good I bet they'll blow me and cook dinner! Sign me up.

Nah... that's just Mike. He's picked up some curious habits from those LeChump guys.

Seriously though, they (all the newer 200TW stuff) are pretty amazing. It used to be that they'd get greasy after ~10 minutes of hard driving and there'd be a big fall-off. Now, I can get them to fade away but it takes work. 10/10th's abuse on an overweight, under-tired, street car, on a hot day... and after the tires already had heat pumped into them during earlier sessions (core temp way up).

Edit:
Speaking of the Victoracers... remember their treadpattern? See any similarities?

 

[RSTPerformance]

So it was mentioned but how do we make it happen??? Lots of people have discussed affordable ways to get new members in and/or keep costs down... With the success of all the SM classes here in the Northeast we know multiple classing works. Why not make another run group for IT cars on street tires? ITRS, ITSS, ITAS, ITBS, and ITCS... I would even add in an SMS. Double dip discount entry for the car (not the driver) to help allow a team to share one car and help prevent people from just changing over from one class to the other (let's not ruin regular IT counts).

Additionally entry for the first year of new membership in the Street Tire class could be cut in half to help get us more addicts! All street tire classes could run together until we reach 40+ car counts. At that point eliminate SMS and/or look at adding some classes to other groups (ITAS & ITCS could run with ITR/ITS/IT.

I don't think that we will gain much participation having a race within a race. We really need to make an affordable opportunity to double dip for IT drivers/teams and we need to go back to making some sort of IT option for newbies to start at an affordable cost.

Some might not agree with my partial focus on team cars (afterall my brother and I share cars on e in a while) but Lemons and Chump are partially successful because people share cars. I also can walk around the track and name several shared cars where one person races one week and another on another weekend.

Raymond "lets make something happen" Blethen

 

[seckerich]

How about they all run in ITX on street tires and we give any IT class cars in the group a trophy if they have 3 or more? Not interested in helping drain IT numbers off, but willing to get new drivers in the club.

 

[Ron Earp]

How about they all run in ITX on street tires and we give any IT class cars in the group a trophy if they have 3 or more? Not interested in helping drain IT numbers off, but willing to get new drivers in the club.

This makes sense.

S
Additionally entry for the first year of new membership in the Street Tire class could be cut in half to help get us more addicts! All street tire classes could run together until we reach 40+ car counts.

This doesn't. So we're promoting IT-street over normal IT, so much so that people running in the street tire IT get half off entries? If that is the way the SCCA wants to roll then fine, but bear in mind on these forums we're not getting a complete picture of IT-racers because many current IT-racers don't read here.

I think Steve's idea is the way to get it done. They run in IT just like normal because IT does not require any changes at all for a street tired IT cars to run in IT. They get a few street tire cars together for a race in a race and they get a trophy. Maybe street tire entries grow, maybe they don't, time will tell.

 

[Xian]

Yeah, I'd say to have them run concurrently with IT and have a "double dip, catch-all" class in another run group. This would allow both the street and race tired IT cars another racing option during the weekend (although IT cars seem to double dip less). i.e. Run ITAS in Group 1, run ITX in Group 2, run ITX for the ECR, etc.

 

[seckerich]

ITX was moved to group 4 for Charlotte, and IT is in group 2. Done.

Now vote with your entries, that is how this all works.

 

[autoxmike]

This makes sense.



This doesn't. So we're promoting IT-street over normal IT, so much so that people running in the street tire IT get half off entries? If that is the way the SCCA wants to roll then fine, but bear in mind on these forums we're not getting a complete picture of IT-racers because many current IT-racers don't read here.

I think Steve's idea is the way to get it done. They run in IT just like normal because IT does not require any changes at all for a street tired IT cars to run in IT. They get a few street tire cars together for a race in a race and they get a trophy. Maybe street tire entries grow, maybe they don't, time will tell.

All great ideas!! I like both of them. For the participant the 1/2 off sounds great but agree that this is probably too drastic. Maybe just the whateever the "normal" multirace discount is? Having only done 3 club race weekends so far in my LeChump MX-3 all of this is still pretty new to me, but the multirace discount that I've seen here in the Atlanta region is pretty good incentive to grab a buddy and throw him/her in the car for the "ST" race, wether it be ITX-Street or ITAS, ITBS, ITCS, etc, etc.

Combine this with easier licensing with some sort of "credit" from LeChump experience (which the SEDIv does quite well IMHO), and we may just see existing IT cars double dip more on street tires, wether that be the same driver getting mroe seat time or getting crew & LeChumpers started in club racing.


For example, this weekend another of our LeChump drivers did his first club race after 15+ LeChump races. I drove one race, he did another, and we split the enduro. We had another newly licensed team memeber that wanted to drive as well but we ran out of races. With this sort of format a 3 person LeChump team could all do a weekend of sprint races.

Intersting data point: We will soon have 6 or 7 guys on our LeChump team that will have Comp licenses. I am working with another Atlanta area team that wants to get 4 drivers licensed and come out sprint racing. So that is 10 - 11 new drivers in the Altanta area that started in LeChump and want to come out sprint racing. I wouldn't be shocked if that number grows to 20+ by next year.

 

[Ron Earp]

ITX was moved to group 4 for Charlotte, and IT is in group 2. Done.

Now vote with your entries, that is how this all works.

Steve has really thrown you guys a bone here and if you want to make this street tire thing fly now is the time. If you're new to the SCCA you won't realize that this wouldn't happen in many SCCA regions at all on such a short notice.

CMS is a fun track, the region puts on a great race, and there is tons of track time with the sprints, ECR, and Cup race. Take advantage of it and get out in numbers, otherwise you'll miss a prime opportunity for LeChump in SCCA. You should be posting this on LeChump boards and getting that vocal Lizard guy involved.

Intersting data point: We will soon have 6 or 7 guys on our LeChump team that will have Comp licenses. I am working with another Atlanta area team that wants to get 4 drivers licensed and come out sprint racing. So that is 10 - 11 new drivers in the Altanta area that started in LeChump and want to come out sprint racing. I wouldn't be shocked if that number grows to 20+ by next year.

You need to get them to CMS in four weeks.

 

[autoxmike]

This makes sense.



This doesn't. So we're promoting IT-street over normal IT, so much so that people running in the street tire IT get half off entries? If that is the way the SCCA wants to roll then fine, but bear in mind on these forums we're not getting a complete picture of IT-racers because many current IT-racers don't read here.

I think Steve's idea is the way to get it done. They run in IT just like normal because IT does not require any changes at all for a street tired IT cars to run in IT. They get a few street tire cars together for a race in a race and they get a trophy. Maybe street tire entries grow, maybe they don't, time will tell.

ITX was moved to group 4 for Charlotte, and IT is in group 2. Done.

Now vote with your entries, that is how this all works.

I'll be recovering from knee surgery and my car will be be recovering from surgery of it's own. I'll get up there if there is any way I can to help support this.

It may take time to get today's IT guys to get a set of streets & give it a try. If my car is not ready I may show up with a couple sets of wheels & tires and see who wants to double dip. I have a set of 205/15 Dunlops on 4x100 and 225/15 Rivals on 4x100. If I briong them up is anyone interesting in double dipping??

 

[autoxmike]

Steve has really thrown you guys a bone here and if you want to make this street tire thing fly now is the time. If you're new to the SCCA you won't realize that this wouldn't happen in many SCCA regions at all on such a short notice.

CMS is a fun track, the region puts on a great race, and there is tons of track time with the sprints, ECR, and Cup race. Take advantage of it and get out in numbers, otherwise you'll miss a prime opportunity for LeChump in SCCA. You should be posting this on LeChump boards and getting that vocal Lizard guy involved.



You need to get them to CMS in four weeks.

Agree - great opportunity. It may be tight to get LeChump cars log booked and drivers licensed in time. Our LeMons team has figured out the licensing thing in SEDiv so if anyone is interested I can give you the recipe on how get a comp license based on LeChump experience. We have been able to go from nothing to licensed in as little as a week.

Of course it will be up to the LeChump teams to either round up rides in existing IT cars or get their own cars logbooked.

 

[autoxmike]

You need to get them to CMS in four weeks.

Let me see what I can do. My car may not be ready by then as we decided it was time for a refresh after 10,000 miles of W2W action in the past 24 months. It is a bit rough now to take out to a club race weekend.

 

[autoxmike]

ITX was moved to group 4 for Charlotte, and IT is in group 2. Done.

Now vote with your entries, that is how this all works.

Steve,

Can you start a thread on the Sandbox on this? There are quite a few LeChump teams local to the area there. I can then offer helpin getting drivers licensed. That gives a few weeks for IT drivers to find street tires and LeChump guys to get log books and Comp licenses....

Time frame is short but let's see if participationc an be arranged in a few weeks...

 

[Ron Earp]

Agree - great opportunity. It may be tight to get LeChump cars log booked and drivers licensed in time

I can't speak for tech and I'm not one, but I know two of the techs in the region (Steve E is one of them) and I know they will absolutely do anything needed to get you on track. That doesn't mean you get a pass for illegal safety stuff, but time isn't an issue - they've helped all of us racers tech cars 30 mins before grid if needed.

Steve,

Can you start a thread on the Sandbox on this? There are quite a few LeChump teams local to the area there. I can then offer helpin getting drivers licensed. That gives a few weeks for IT drivers to find street tires and LeChump guys to get log books and Comp licenses....

Time frame is short but let's see if participationc an be arranged in a few weeks...

YOU should start a thread on it. You're the vocal spearhead now, get out there on the soapbox. Steve's given you the information, spread the word.

 

[autoxmike]

I can't speak for tech and I'm not one, but I know two of the techs in the region (Steve E is one of them) and I know they will absolutely do anything needed to get you on track. That doesn't mean you get a pass for illegal safety stuff, but time isn't an issue - they've helped all of us racers tech cars 30 mins before grid if needed.



YOU should start a thread on it. You're the vocal spearhead now, get out there on the soapbox. Steve's given you the information, spread the word.

Yes I can start a thread - It's just that I'm not that familair with the run order than is normally done, what the exact changes are, etc, etc. I'm still on the steep part of the learning curve about club race weekends, schedules, administration, etc, etc. and don't want to misstate the changes that Steve has made to the schedule. Such as what cars are currently group 4 cars that ITX will run with, etc. I'd be happy to post the ins & outs of the race weekend schedule but I don't know/understrand it all yet.