Time to write those letters - Head and Neck Restraints
- Thread starter pitbull113
- Start date
What Chris said.
The people most upset with how this mandate has been managed were largely early adopters who SUPPORT the use of H&N systems. Many of us are being forced to stop using a system that is demonstrably LESS SAFE in common circumstances than the ones now being forced upon us.
It doesn't take much imagination to picture what a lawyer would do with that.
K
The people most upset with how this mandate has been managed were largely early adopters who SUPPORT the use of H&N systems. Many of us are being forced to stop using a system that is demonstrably LESS SAFE in common circumstances than the ones now being forced upon us.
It doesn't take much imagination to picture what a lawyer would do with that.
K
what Chris & K said.
i was late coming to selecting because i did not want to buy an Isaac device if SFI was going to be required.
AFTER the CRB voted to ONLY recommend their use, i bought an entry level Isaac. now the BOD trumps the CRB and requires it. it is that part of the procedural implementation that chaps me.
so to recoup $$ needed to buy a different device (non Hans for sure), i have let my license and membership lapse and did not enter this year's IT Fest. due to other commitments, i can't just command $2000 to appear ( i plan to buy a better seat to get back some of the side support).
should be back on track after $2000 of dues and entry fees accumulates. might not be with SCCA though. since NASA did this H&NR first, they must be the safety leaders, right?
i was late coming to selecting because i did not want to buy an Isaac device if SFI was going to be required.
AFTER the CRB voted to ONLY recommend their use, i bought an entry level Isaac. now the BOD trumps the CRB and requires it. it is that part of the procedural implementation that chaps me.
so to recoup $$ needed to buy a different device (non Hans for sure), i have let my license and membership lapse and did not enter this year's IT Fest. due to other commitments, i can't just command $2000 to appear ( i plan to buy a better seat to get back some of the side support).
should be back on track after $2000 of dues and entry fees accumulates. might not be with SCCA though. since NASA did this H&NR first, they must be the safety leaders, right?
lateapex911
Super Moderator
Doc, did you typo that or m I being double positive/negatively confused??
personally, I feel that the rule forces me to throw away a system with better all around performance and replace it with one that is arguably lower performance. So, spend more, get less. marvelous.
All because some guys got together and wrote some lame market limiting 'standard'
The whole things a racket to put money in peoples pockets, plain and simple. Being a pawn sucks, especially when it concerns my money, and my neck.
Whoops. Double negativity alert, Batman!
I'm being told that I have to use a less-safe system. The lawyers will have a field day.
K
Originally Posted by gsbaker
...........many sanctioning bodies, a.k.a. the herd, are going the opposite direction in either expanding their mandate beyond SFI/FIA, or considering repealing those mandates all together.....
No links yet. Sorry, but this is through-the-grapevine stuff. Two things appear to be happening. First, sanctioning bodies that establish mandates, with the ironic exception of the SCCA, seem to be moving to expanded language that requires a certified device. Something like, "shall use a head and neck restraint certified to meet or exceed industry safety standards." Period. As long as it has a sticker to that effect, it's good to go.
Second, some forms of racing -- where drivers actually, ya know, crash a lot -- are considering repealing their mandates because of compression injuries and vertebral fractures.
And, no, we won't name names. As soon as we do those bodies will be carpet bombed by HANS salesmen.
StephenB
New member
Why dont we write a letter to these companys and ask them to get the product you're using that is safer certified? I hear people over and over and over again complaining But no one is holding those companys accountable to get their products certified. I know I am going against the herd of this forum but I feel like anybody that bought a non SFI product in the last 2 years had to know they were making a bad investment.
I do feel bad for you guys but maybe everyone with those other products should write those companies and try to get them to get their product certified.
Stephen
I do feel bad for you guys but maybe everyone with those other products should write those companies and try to get them to get their product certified.
Stephen
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Stephen, some of these devices, by design, do not and cannot meet every requirement of the spec(s).
Kirk, I like your wisdom and spunk, your way with words and truly believe that you are a ass(sometimes ASS)et to the sport, but you just wasted more words being an ass than a simple reponse would have taken and I proved it.
Kirk, I like your wisdom and spunk, your way with words and truly believe that you are a ass(sometimes ASS)et to the sport, but you just wasted more words being an ass than a simple reponse would have taken and I proved it.
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you should have just congratulated him on hiis new sponsorship (Walt's Crawlers).
afterall, he was just baiting you/us.
lateapex911
Super Moderator
Stephen, you're a smart guy. Raymond made you write that, right? 
Do your research, the answers everywhere.
Do your research, the answers everywhere.
StephenB
New member
So none of you think that the manufacture could have spent sometime and redesigned the product to meet the specs. This has been going on for nearly a half decade, I really think they could have done something to meet the specs if they wanted to.
Stephen
On edit: you are all correct, I dismissed paying attention to the non sfi equipment because I really saw this day coming 3 or 4 years ago. Please disregard my post If you wish.
Stephen
On edit: you are all correct, I dismissed paying attention to the non sfi equipment because I really saw this day coming 3 or 4 years ago. Please disregard my post If you wish.
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You "proved" something on an internet board, and I'm the ass? Congrats.
As is often the case, the problem is way bigger than just the ISAAC issue but SCCA members are mostly a mix of the the jaded, the apathetic, and the new so they don't care, want to make the effort to care, or (mostly) know that they should care.
If you stick around long enough, you WILL get dorked by the broader problem at hand, driven by SFI's business model and the CRB's/BOD's lack of critical thinking on safety issues.
The Foundation's business model has generally been to introduce every spec in drag racing first (e.g., with suits, back in the '80s) then drag the other racing disciplines along as they penetrate the market. They invoke the same "industry standard" as is now being imposed on H&N systems, and all it takes is a handful of manufacturers who understand the value of limits to market access to get with SFI to make a spec.
Do you know, for example, that SFI has specs for drag racing wheels? Only member manufacturers can invoke it so where SFI wheels are required, the only folks allowed in the market are MEMBER MANUFACTURERS and CUSTOMERS of those manufacturers. If Spinwerks, Weld, and American (all SFI member manufacturers already) got together and wrote a spec, and the CRB/BOD got chickened into playing along, every Club Racing member would be obligated to patronize those companies as they replaced all of their wheels. All of the other manufacturers would be forced to pony up membership and "certification" $$, or opt out of the market, limiting your choices...
Oh, but WAIT. You know all that already because you are Champion of the Internet.
K
...by which point in time I'd done my research to choose the safest system, purchased it, and already been using it for 3 or 4 years. Guess the mistake I made was trying to actually be safer rather than just following a rule.
K
Andy Bettencourt
Super Moderator
So Stephen,
I saw this coming years ago too and bought an R3 AND a special seat. Doesn't mean the mandate, or the SFI regulation is any less stupid. Good people have done their research and bought a product they feel is SUPERIOR to a HANS in certain crash situations.
What you don't seem to understand is WHY these other systems may or may not meet SFI and why that rediculous spec would compromise the very core design of these units. Do THAT research and then come back here and critisize should you feel the need.
John..the good news is that the BOD has allowed that if you wear your new suit, a drivers door and roll cage are no longer required....LOL
I am ready for next year...I had a H&NR incorperated into the suit..
......I think I might need to make a few adjustments to my seat though..
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I am ready for next year...I had a H&NR incorperated into the suit..
......I think I might need to make a few adjustments to my seat though..
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gran racing
Super Moderator
Stephen, as said, there's a lot more to this than that.
I personally have an Isaac device and have been using it for a few years now. I like it and feel confident that it'll work if the time comes. Now I'm in a position where as of this winter, I'll no longer be able to use it and will need to purchase a device that has a SFI sticker. There will be much grumbling, it'll add one more piece to the pile of why maybe I should put this hobby aside for a while, and for the first time in many years I've seriously given thought to it. In the end I'll probably buy one, but don't have the funds to purchase a new racing seat. I also just bought belts this year so if I were to get a HANS, I'll be using the 3" versus instead of their recommended 2" belts. Right side window net is another expense and time / frustration to install. When all is said and done, my safety protection next year will decrease which bothers me much more so now that I have a young you. I'm sure you can understand this frustration.
Russ Myers
New member
Ladies and gentlemen,
It is at this time, due to tire costs, fuel costs, entry fee escalations, and now, idiotic rules supposed to protect me from myself(seats, belts, H&N devices, window nets, etc.) that I announce that this will probably be my last year in Club racing. I choose not to pay into this system any more. I really can't afford it anymore. I will probably drop back to Auto-X and wait for the day that the SCCA demands fire suits and H&N devices be manditory for you to play in the parking lots.
Russ
It is at this time, due to tire costs, fuel costs, entry fee escalations, and now, idiotic rules supposed to protect me from myself(seats, belts, H&N devices, window nets, etc.) that I announce that this will probably be my last year in Club racing. I choose not to pay into this system any more. I really can't afford it anymore. I will probably drop back to Auto-X and wait for the day that the SCCA demands fire suits and H&N devices be manditory for you to play in the parking lots.
Russ